Proposition 8 discussion continued - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-11-2008, 12:50 AM   #136
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,030
Local Time: 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Were you implying that homosexuality is a choice? That's what I understood you to be saying.
I wasn't trying to imply anything, that was just the word I used. Certainly not in the sense of "I feel like being a homosexual."
__________________

__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 11:23 AM   #137
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,714
Local Time: 12:34 PM
I just was trying to figure out if you thought people chose to be homosexual as opposed to it being genetic, that's all.

I went on to say what I did about the issue of choice vs. genetics being the root of some people's thoughts around homosexuality because I'd been thinking about that for a while, and I thought it was a good springboard to finally bring it up.
__________________

__________________
corianderstem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 11:43 AM   #138
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 03:34 PM
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 05:11 PM   #139
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,030
Local Time: 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I just was trying to figure out if you thought people chose to be homosexual as opposed to it being genetic, that's all.

I went on to say what I did about the issue of choice vs. genetics being the root of some people's thoughts around homosexuality because I'd been thinking about that for a while, and I thought it was a good springboard to finally bring it up.
Yeah, just a lazy choice of word. I'm also not an expert, so it's not really my place, but certainly I know that yeah, you can't just wake up one day and decide to be gay.
__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 06:09 PM   #140
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,714
Local Time: 12:34 PM
Thanks for clarifying, COBL. I'll leave you alone now.
__________________
corianderstem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 07:44 PM   #141
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
angelordevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Inside a sound
Posts: 5,827
Local Time: 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
Tolerance
Absolutely.

It's just a matter of time before the dinosaurs fall on this issue. Although it'll likely be a painful journey, 30 years from now decisions like these will be laughed at...or cried at.
__________________
angelordevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 08:54 PM   #142
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,030
Local Time: 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Thanks for clarifying, COBL. I'll leave you alone now.
It's all good!
__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 12:58 AM   #143
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I just was trying to figure out if you thought people chose to be homosexual as opposed to it being genetic, that's all.

I went on to say what I did about the issue of choice vs. genetics being the root of some people's thoughts around homosexuality because I'd been thinking about that for a while, and I thought it was a good springboard to finally bring it up.
It doesn't make a difference, the choice to engage in gay sex is still a choice.

An argument built from freedom will defend the right to have sex with any consenting party, and grant marriage for every permutation of consensual coupling.

I don't think that arguing for gay rights on the basis of nature is a good way to go, I don't think that an argument from nature should influence how laws are created.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 06:48 AM   #144
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 03:34 PM
I think it does. I think many people who are anti-gay rights feel that, by making as many things about homosexuality illegal as possible, it'll force gays to "choose" to be straight, since they believe it is a choice.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 07:14 AM   #145
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 06:34 AM
I don't think that those facts can change their minds, their position is illiberal regardless of the justification, that homosexuality is natural is factually true but arguments built around individual rights are more justifiable.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 11:15 AM   #146
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 12:34 PM
Judge opens door for gay marriage in Connecticut - CNN.com

I see Connecticut has joined the ranks of the complex.
__________________
martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 11:23 AM   #147
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 03:34 PM
from the NYT:

Quote:
Anti-Gay, Anti-Family
By DAN SAVAGE

COUNTLESS Americans, gay and otherwise, are still mourning — and social conservatives are still celebrating — the approval last Tuesday of anti-gay-marriage amendments in Florida, Arizona and, most heartbreaking, California, where Proposition 8 stripped same-sex couples of their right to wed. Eighteen thousand same-sex couples were legally married in California this past summer and fall; their marriages are now in limbo.

But while Californians march and gay activists contemplate a national boycott of Utah — the Mormon Church largely bankrolled Proposition 8 — an even more ominous new law in Arkansas has drawn little notice.

That state’s Proposed Initiative Act No. 1, approved by nearly 57 percent of voters last week, bans people who are “cohabitating outside a valid marriage” from serving as foster parents or adopting children. While the measure bans both gay and straight members of cohabitating couples as foster or adoptive parents, the Arkansas Family Council wrote it expressly to thwart “the gay agenda.” Right now, there are 3,700 other children across Arkansas in state custody; 1,000 of them are available for adoption. The overwhelming majority of these children have been abused, neglected or abandoned by their heterosexual parents.

Even before the law passed, the state estimated that it had only about a quarter of the foster parents it needed. Beginning on Jan. 1, a grandmother in Arkansas cohabitating with her opposite-sex partner because marrying might reduce their pension benefits is barred from taking in her own grandchild; a gay man living with his male partner cannot adopt his deceased sister’s children.

Social conservatives are threatening to roll out Arkansas-style adoption bans in other states. And the timing couldn’t be worse: in tough economic times, the numbers of abused and neglected children in need of foster care rises. But good times or bad, no movement that would turn away qualified parents and condemn children to a broken foster care system should be considered “pro-family.”

Most ominous, once “pro-family” groups start arguing that gay couples are unfit to raise children we might adopt, how long before they argue that we’re unfit to raise those we’ve already adopted? If lesbian couples are unfit to care for foster children, are they fit to care for their own biological children?


The loss in California last week was heartbreaking. But what may be coming next is terrifying.

talk about a slippery slope.

in some ways, this is even worse than being denied equal protection under the law.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 11:29 AM   #148
War Child
 
u2gek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sunny CA
Posts: 715
Local Time: 01:34 PM
Instead of putting one name under "bride" and the other under "groom," couples will see two boxes marked "bride/groom/spouse."

OK, California could have made that soooo much easier if they'd changed their marriage licenses this way instead of "Party A and Party B" which resulted in the one hetero couple suing because they don't want to be Party A and Party B. It would have been one less crazy pro Prop 8 argument that people latched onto. Of course Connecticut may have learned from CA's mistake and worded their license after having seen the fiasco here.

But "yay!" Go Connecticut
__________________
u2gek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 11:32 AM   #149
War Child
 
u2gek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sunny CA
Posts: 715
Local Time: 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
from the NYT:




talk about a slippery slope.

in some ways, this is even worse than being denied equal protection under the law.
Another example of the Pro Prop 8 and Pro Traditional Family movements being "all about the children".

Who will suffer here? It's heartbreaking....
__________________
u2gek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 11:36 AM   #150
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 03:34 PM
Yes that's just so pro family. The children will suffer, and I don't know how adults can live with themselves when they do.
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com