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Old 10-13-2011, 11:28 PM   #106
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So, the Tea Party think that the Government is pathetic and does not represent them anymore, and that George Soros is the puppateer pulling the strings. The Occupy Group think that the Government is pathetic and does not represent them anymore, and that Goldman Sachs is the puppateer pulling the strings. Have I got that right?
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:10 AM   #107
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This cannot be possibly correct, as it is just a bunch of privileged white hippy students causing aggro and stopping people going to work because the bums have nothing better to do.

There is no way a respected figure such as Walesa would support these ne'er do wells.
again... please. anyone who wants to... go there. i've been there three times now.

let me just also state, for the record, that i'm not a republican... i believe in a lot of things that the logical side of this OWS thing have come out in support of. i'm in favor of tearing down both political parties, and that our financial system, and society as a whole, is in need of a radical change.

but just like tea party rallies inevitably get over-run by a bunch of clueless, racist, redneck trailer park trash who don't really know what they're supporting anyways... zuccotti park is filled with a bunch of 18-22 year old white kids who don't even have a clue as to why they're actually there. the place is the definition of freak show.

hey... the 60's were known for political activism and the civil rights movement... but we all know full well that the majority of the people at woodstock were there to get high and have freaky hippy sex.

so my problem with occupy wall street is that it is building up a huge DAILY cost in police protection to babysit a bunch of college kids, and that cost will eventually be passed on to the average taxpayer like myself.

i would be all in favor of this turning into an organized political movement that can actually achieve some sort of change. i am not in favor of wasting taxpayer money babysitting a group that's at least 75% there for the experience and nothing more.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:31 AM   #108
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So, the Tea Party think that the Government is pathetic and does not represent them anymore, and that George Soros is the puppateer pulling the strings.
I don't think that 99% of the teabaggers have any idea who George Soros is...
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:39 AM   #109
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I don't think that 99% of the teabaggers have any idea who George Soros is...
Oh they all know who he is... They all know the Glenn Beck version of who he is, Beck spends whole shows dedicated to Soros and to show how he's connected to the fall of the Roman Empire and how he helped fund the holocaust.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:53 AM   #110
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everything he said
i completely agree with.

i like being able to look at the pictures of this social conundrum from a safe odor-free distance away, but that's about it. the reasoning behind it are misaligned. i don't know what #OWS is expecting "wall street" to do. it's like the CEOs are looking down from the 45th floor at an anthill. "so anyway, back to making more money..."

do they really expect to get them to turn themselves in? or for politicians to wave away campaign contributions? the most they will get from them is "i understand how they feel down there."
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:57 AM   #111
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I certainly know who he is and what he does. Am I the 1%, or do you just want to admit that you pulled that number out of thin air?

Likewise, can I say that a majority of these protestors have no idea who, say, the Koch family is, outside of what Rachel Maddow tells them? What's the difference?
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:14 AM   #112
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Likewise, can I say that a majority of these protestors have no idea who, say, the Koch family is, outside of what Rachel Maddow tells them? What's the difference?

you probably can't say that -- i'm sure a lot of people do, and i disagree with the 1% number.

i also don't agree with putting Maddow and Glen Beck in the same sentence. one is a left-ish host of an MSNBC program, the other is a snake oil salesman who holds rallies on the National Mall and goes to Israel for ... well, no idea on that one. it was just bonkers evangelical stuff.

i think the Tea Party's initial object to TARP and then the Stimulus was at least rational, in that it could be logically debated. perhaps it would have been better to let the banks fail, to let the auto industry fail, and to let the country fall into a depression. that can be debated. where it lost my respect was when Tea Party became known for blaming Obama for everything that has ever happened, ever, with the Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Malcolm X/Karl Marx comparisons, and then the screaming about "death panels" over the summer of 2009.

you'll also note the presence of actual criticism from people in here (who are mostly non-conservative) of the OWS movement, which i never saw from the right in regards to the Tea Party. at least in here.

though, admittedly, there aren't many on the right in here.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:17 AM   #113
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of what Rachel Maddow tells them? What's the difference?
The difference is that the percentage of these protestors that listen to Maddow is probably A LOT smaller than tea protestors that listen to Beck.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:24 AM   #114
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i don't know what #OWS is expecting "wall street" to do.
I imagine that at some point they expect them to "give" on a few things and stop lobbying for said things. There have been a number of influential and wealthy business people (hedge fund owners, CEOs and so on) who have made statements to the effect of - we have to accept that some things will have to change (ie. taxes will go up, may have to swallow a financial transaction tax, may have to swallow some regulations, etc) not because they want to sing Kumbaya with the 99% but because they correctly recognize that it is in their best interest to do so.

If you are part of the elite, you get to stay there so long as the people below you are relatively happy and complacent. When you start having social unrest and large numbers of people taking to the streets, who over time begin to feel more and more like the law is not there to protect them so that they may as well step out of the law, that directly threatens the elite. Do you think that CEOs want to have bands of people running through the streets? 20, 30% unemployment and people feeling like they have nothing to lose, so hey, may as well smash some windows, help themselves to food they think they are entitled to and so on?
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:30 AM   #115
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I certainly know who he is and what he does.
Really?

Can you tell me about his work to combat Communism in Eastern Europe for decades and the personal fortune that he committed to that fight? Or is this something that Glenn Beck hasn't told you about?
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:32 AM   #116
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my number one issue with this entire movement is that i see no end game that doesn't result in violence.

i want them to be organized, to try to become a part of the establishment, to make change from within the system. right now it's just being bastardized by the same political establishment that helped fuck this country up in the first place.

for better or worse... the tea party have gotten people elected and in a position where they can actually effect change. it might not be change that you or i agree with, but they are there. they have also helped fracture the republican party in many ways.

organize. run for office. put the heat on the liberal establishment, who won't be able to publicly support the #OWS movement, and then go back to the same corporate money bags that got them elected in the first place.

the political parties need to be busted apart. let the tea party splinter the republican party and occupy wall street splinter the democrats, and then the rest of us can all meet in the middle and actually accomplish something.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:52 AM   #117
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the political parties need to be busted apart. let the tea party splinter the republican party and occupy wall street splinter the democrats, and then the rest of us can all meet in the middle and actually accomplish something.
this has needed to happen for a very long time.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:52 AM   #118
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my number one issue with this entire movement is that i see no end game that doesn't result in violence.

i want them to be organized, to try to become a part of the establishment, to make change from within the system. right now it's just being bastardized by the same political establishment that helped fuck this country up in the first place.

for better or worse... the tea party have gotten people elected and in a position where they can actually effect change. it might not be change that you or i agree with, but they are there. they have also helped fracture the republican party in many ways.

organize. run for office. put the heat on the liberal establishment, who won't be able to publicly support the #OWS movement, and then go back to the same corporate money bags that got them elected in the first place.

the political parties need to be busted apart. let the tea party splinter the republican party and occupy wall street splinter the democrats, and then the rest of us can all meet in the middle and actually accomplish something.
Sure, but... this is, what, two or three weeks in? Not sure what you were expecting to see develop that quickly. And if you were planning it, Phase 1 would just be about getting attention anyway. There will be a point where you naturally move on, when you're also ready to move on.

It's a different beast too - it's global. If it works, at the very least, millions and millions will 'unite' under that slogan. How that is effectively networked and organised remains to be seen, but it's 2011, so the potential is certainly there. For organisation in the US, they'll need some pretty smart heads up front fairly soon. It has the potential to be very, very big, and very, very diverse. That's fantastic, but tough to manage. I mean, imagine, say, figuring out a ten point manifesto? Pretty easy for the Tea Party, you just take their top ten bumper sticker slogans. But for this lot, I suspect it will be way, way, way more complex.

As for violence, it doesn't have to end that way. They've had a protest camp (of fluctuating size) right outside the Parliament House in London since the Afghanistan War began. That's never led to violence. Don't over police it. If they're playing (roughly) by the rules, leave them alone.
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:53 PM   #119
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it will end that way. we're already seeing it.

an element of the protesters were emboldened by the fact that they weren't kicked out of the park, and decided to try to march on the new york stock exchange. the inevitable clash ensued. tomorrow they plan on marching on chase bank, and eventually an attempt to take over times square and the subways.

if they want to just chill in the park, with protest marches on the weekend? i'm cool with that. but the controlling elements within this thing have made it clear that they have objectives beyond that. they already tried to take over the brooklyn bridge.

everyone has a breaking point. i'd prefer not to see a riot in my city. not good for the commute.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:25 PM   #120
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They need some leadership here in America. Seriously.

And that leadership needs to preach this:

Article V Convention
Convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In order for THE PEOPLE to introduce a Constitutional Amendment to get corporate lobby
influence out of lawmaking. And also term limits could be a secondary item.

Although the former is certainly what the OWS and Tea Party types (including everybody else) could easily agree on. The downside here is that these conventions open the door for ALL sorts of Constitutional Amendment discussion (Balanced Budget Amendment, etc.) so that could be a 'talking point' used by the suits in DC to squash it. And believe me, they would try to squash it.
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