Pro-tax Occupation Protests Held Across U.S. (O.W.S. Thread) - Page 44 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-22-2013, 11:24 PM   #646
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Do you think inequality can be eliminated under capitalism?
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:27 PM   #647
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Occupy Wall Street did have a point when it first started out. I don't see how anyone cannot agree that there was some shadiness going on with the banks and no one was ever charged with anything.

Problem was, extremists took over OWS and turned it into a movement with no real goal but to cause chaos. The behavior of the Occupiers certainly didn't help getting the original message across either.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:30 PM   #648
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Do you think inequality can be eliminated under capitalism?
I don't think inequality will ever be eliminated under any system, capitalistic or communist. Human beings don't function that way, because societies everywhere are far too complex on many different levels (income, ethnicity, individual identity, etc.) for any kind of equality to be practiced.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:39 PM   #649
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Occupy Wall Street did have a point when it first started out. I don't see how anyone cannot agree that there was some shadiness going on with the banks and no one was ever charged with anything.

Problem was, extremists took over OWS and turned it into a movement with no real goal but to cause chaos. The behavior of the Occupiers certainly didn't help getting the original message across either.
Which extremists? My impression was that it was always a liberal oriented movement and any radical left involvement was minor.

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I don't think inequality will ever be eliminated under any system, capitalistic or communist. Human beings don't function that way, because societies everywhere are far too complex on many different levels (income, ethnicity, individual identity, etc.) for any kind of equality to be practiced.
Although I (unsurprisingly) disagree about the 'human nature' thing I don't want to turn this into another definition argument given I've already been through it numerous times.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:47 PM   #650
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Do you think inequality can be eliminated under capitalism?
No, but I also don't think that eliminating inequality altogether is a desirable goal.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:57 PM   #651
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No, but I also don't think that eliminating inequality altogether is a desirable goal.
It's not possible yet.....yet
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:23 AM   #652
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Which extremists? My impression was that it was always a liberal oriented movement and any radical left involvement was minor
That is your impression but you weren't in the area on a regular basis, like myself and friends and co-workers. I don't know where you got your information from, but I wonder if it mentioned any of the public defecating, harassing anyone who walked by, and banging on drums late into the night. It may have started out as a liberal movement - like I have stated numerous times - but the radicals did take it over, and turned it into a movement with no clear goals. It may never had any clear goals in the first place, but the original message regarding the banks got lost in the noise.

And if you really want to know which extremists, I'd say they were people who protest for the sake of protesting, along with rich kids who wish they were poor.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:11 PM   #653
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OWS's overarching goal seems pretty simple and understandable to me: to fix the vast income inequality that exists in this country. Trouble is that there were some idiots who participated in the movement, giving it a bad image, and that "fix income inequality" does not at all translate easily into policy.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:24 PM   #654
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OWS's overarching goal seems pretty simple and understandable to me: to fix the vast income inequality that exists in this country. Trouble is that there were some idiots who participated in the movement, giving it a bad image, and that "fix income inequality" does not at all translate easily into policy.
Right, but how? What ideas did they have to fix income inequality? Granted, maybe some had ideas, but as we've noted, those who hurt the movement ruined any attempt for those ideas being heard.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:51 PM   #655
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OWS's overarching goal seems pretty simple and understandable to me: to fix the vast income inequality that exists in this country. Trouble is that there were some idiots who participated in the movement, giving it a bad image, and that "fix income inequality" does not at all translate easily into policy.
What is the proper level of income inequality? To the contrary, I thought OWS overarching goal was over simplified and horrifically vague.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:23 PM   #656
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What is the proper level of income inequality?

here's a good place to start: Gini coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it's interesting that the countries with higher pre-tax Gini coefficients tend to have much higher levels of violence (i.e., South Africa, Brazil, Mexico). and countries with safer, healthier populations (the Nordic countries) have lower indexes.

this nicely ties into the question of "why" mass shootings seem to happen more in the US than other countries, and the profile you highlighted of the shooters having a sense of aggrieved entitlement. it seems that in a winner-takes-everything society, combined with the loosening of social safety nets (to enable more cash to flow upwards via tax cuts) and family/community connections (churches, unions, women's clubs) this exacerbates exactly what you were pointing to.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:23 PM   #657
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What is the proper level of income inequality?
That's an age old question and we can never come up with an exact "level" - but I do think we can start by implementing some barriers between Big Business and DC.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:34 PM   #658
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That's an age old question and we can never come up with an exact "level" - but I do think we can start by implementing some barriers between Big Business and DC.


and demanding a simplistic answer to a complex issue is another also a way of avoiding acknowledgement that we have a problem.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #659
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and demanding a simplistic answer to a complex issue is another also a way of avoiding acknowledgement that we have a problem.
So, you don't think some barriers between Big Business and DC would help? While I don't think it will solve everything, I do think that when a company can essentially bribe politicians (through campaign contributions and future seats on a board of directors) to create laws and regulations that improve their profits - then we have a conflict of interest.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:48 PM   #660
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So, you don't think some barriers between Big Business and DC would help? While I don't think it will solve everything, I do think that when a company can essentially bribe politicians (through campaign contributions and future seats on a board of directors) to create laws and regulations that improve their profits - then we have a conflict of interest.
I absolutely do think it would help.

A great place to start would be overturning Citizens United.

My comment was more directed at the first part of your post.
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