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Old 11-05-2011, 11:20 PM   #346
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I'm not sure how things are in the Republic, in Northern Ireland I know there is a serious amount of discontent, but then in the North we've never been known for being content with much. But I know the North's economy is hurting as we aren't getting as much trade from across the border.

As far as media goes I can only speak for the UK at the moment, the Guardian is as usual pretty honest and open about the situation in Greece. The BBC is disappointingly vague and afraid to pass comment in any meaningful way on the EU or the banks.

The whole Lisbon treaty was a joke, nothing democratic about it, we'll force you to keep voting until you give us a yes, it was and remains a farce.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:28 PM   #347
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I'm not sure how things are in the Republic, in Northern Ireland I know there is a serious amount of discontent, but then in the North we've never been known for being content with much.

The whole Lisbon treaty was a joke, nothing democratic about it, we'll force you to keep voting until you give us a yes, it was and remains a farce.
Exactly. At least, to you irish, it was given the chance to referend' it. To us, portuguese, politicians said letter-by-letter something like «This document is too complicated for people to understand, to referend' it would be a danger».
I'm very ashamed to see the city I live and which I love from my heart to give its name to such an inglorious document like the Lisbon Treaty. Shameful as well is to see Durão Barroso that left its political post as Prime-Minister, leaving the country in the middle of a political crisis, to go to Brussels and to make the disgraceful job he's been doing (nothing I wasn't used to when he was PM...) as President of the European Comission...
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:35 PM   #348
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Exactly. At least, to you irish, it was given the chance to referend' it. To us, portuguese, politicians said letter-by-letter something like «This document is too complicated for people to understand, to referend' it would be a danger».
I'm very ashamed to see the city I live and which I love from my heart to give its name to such an inglorious document like the Lisbon Treaty. Shameful as well is to see Durão Barroso that left its political post as Prime-Minister, leaving the country in the middle of a political crisis, to go to Brussels and to make the disgraceful job he's been doing (nothing I wasn't used to when he was PM...) as President of the European Comission...
Just to point out that LJT wouldn't have had a vote, as he lives in Northern Ireland, and citizens of the UK have repeatedly been denied a vote on many European treaties by successive Labour and Conservative governments, in spite of the campaigns for referendums, including within their advocates several mainstream Conservative politicians.

Hopefully, most people that have visited the beautiful and historic city of Lisbon will not associate such a beautiful place with what you quite correctly and rightfully describe as an inglorious document!
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:44 PM   #349
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As far as media goes I can only speak for the UK at the moment, the Guardian is as usual pretty honest and open about the situation in Greece. The BBC is disappointingly vague and afraid to pass comment in any meaningful way on the EU or the banks.
The BBC is a state owned and financed organisation - its remit, like RTE in the ROI, is to support the government.

BBC/RTE = Pravda.

The Guardian, I think, is a decent paper, Alan Rusbridger is a great and principled editor - though I don't support its politics (I'm more of a Telegraph man). Polly Toynbee is one of the few pro-EU columnists to at least have the grace to admit that she was wrong to support the single currency.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:02 AM   #350
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Less healthcare, but Greece is still buying guns

«[Greece] buys more German weapons than any other country»

...And someone's gotta keep the sleeping giant [Turkey, which both Greece and Germany absolutely "adore"] under control...

On the other hand...


The German Debt Problem Is Way Worse Than Anyone Thought
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:33 PM   #351
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Not to distract from the discussion of how "OWS" looks from inside Europe, which is quite fascinating, but I thought this article from National Review (moderate-to-center right by US standards) concerning the relevance of education policy to OWS was pretty interesting too.


by Reihan Salam (columnist), Nov. 4
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At The Nation, Richard Kim has an article on student debt levels, among other things:
A few years ago, Joe Therrien, a graduate of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, was working as a full-time drama teacher at a public elementary school in New York City. Frustrated by huge class sizes, sparse resources and a disorganized bureaucracy, he set off to the University of Connecticut to get an MFA in his passion—puppetry. Three years and $35,000 in student loans later, he emerged with degree in hand, and because puppeteers aren’t exactly in high demand, he went looking for work at his old school. The intervening years had been brutal to the city’s school budgets—down about 14% on average since 2007. A virtual hiring freeze has been in place since 2009 in most subject areas, arts included, and spending on art supplies in elementary schools crashed by 73% between 2006 and 2009. So even though Joe’s old principal was excited to have him back, she just couldn’t afford to hire a new full-time teacher. Instead, he’s working at his old school as a full-time “substitute”; he writes his own curriculum, holds regular classes and does everything a normal teacher does. “But sub pay is about 50% of a full-time salaried position,” he says, “so I’m working for half as much as I did four years ago, before grad school, and I don’t have health insurance…It’s the best-paying job I could find.”

Like a lot of the young protesters who have flocked to Occupy Wall Street, Joe had thought that hard work and education would bring, if not class mobility, at least a measure of security (indeed, a master’s degree can boost a New York City teacher’s salary by $10,000 or more). But the past decade of stagnant wages for the 99% and million-dollar bonuses for the 1% has awakened the kids of the middle class to a national nightmare: the dream that coaxed their parents to meet the demands of work, school, mortgage payments and tuition bills is shattered. Down is the new up.
Many readers have chosen to poke fun at Therrien, including some friends of mine. It’s true that puppetry isn’t the most conventional choice, but I don’t think we should be giving Therrien a hard time. Moreover, I’m glad that Kim chose this example. It takes guts to defend Therrien’s right to make this particular choice instead of cherry-picking a story designed to tug at the heartstrings. Rather, we should examine some of the other implicit assumptions at work in Kim’s article and in the broader discourse surrounding our public schools. For example, does it make sense that a master’s degree should boost one’s salary by $10,000 or more, regardless of whether or not there is evidence to suggest that it makes one an effective teacher? As we discussed yesterday in the context of Western Governors University, one can imagine that some teachers without master’s degrees are as effective as teachers with master’s degrees—in puppetry or business administration or South Asian languages and civilizations or engineering or whatever else—and so this arbitrary salary schedule tied to education seems profoundly unwise, and likely to encourage overinvestment in education. By overinvestment, I’m referring not just to the cost of tuition but to the opportunity cost. If the goal is to become a more effective teacher, perhaps more years in the trenches are preferable to a master’s program for some students.

On the question of middle-class stability for young teachers, it’s worth considering the nature of the modal salary schedule for a public school teacher, an issue we recently discussed in the context of Jacob Vigdor’s work, e.g.:
Relative to a teacher just beginning in the profession, teachers with one or two years of experience raise test scores by an extra 5% of a standard deviation. They are paid, on average, 2% more than starting teachers. If the standard were to pay teachers an extra 1% of salary when they raise test scores by 2.5% of a standard deviation, then highly experienced teachers who post a 25% test-score advantage over rookies should be paid a 10% premium. Instead, their premium approaches 70%. Visually, the darker bars rise quickly at first, moving from left to right, but largely level off once a teacher has six years of experience. The salary schedule marches right along, providing continuously increasing rewards to teachers as they progress from 6 to 27 years of experience, even though their classroom effectiveness has barely improved. The existing salary schedule rewards teachers too little for the substantial improvements they post in the first few years on the job, and too much for the later years of their career, when they show only incremental advances. An evidence-based salary schedule would alter this arrangement, focusing the rewards on the early rungs of the experience ladder.
An evidence-based salary schedule would offer higher salaries for teachers with one or two years of experience than at present and somewhat lower salaries for teachers who’ve been in the system for over a decade or two. Another way of putting this is that salaries would get higher faster, and then plateau at a somewhat higher level during those years when many experienced teachers consider dropping out of the profession. The relevant distributional consideration here is among teachers. There are ways we could distribute the existing compensation budget (a) more equitably and (b) more efficiently, in terms of the goal of achieving the highest possible educational outcomes for students. It is crucial, for example, to shift compensation from deferred compensation in the form of pensions to starting salaries. Michael Petrilli has offered a game-plan:
Today’s teacher compensation system is perfectly designed to repel ambitious individuals. We offer mediocre starting salaries, provide meager raises even after hard-earned skills have been gained on the job and backload the most generous benefits (in terms of pensions) toward the end of 30 years of service. More fundamentally, for decades we’ve prioritized smaller classes over higher teacher pay. If we had kept class sizes constant over the past 50 years, the average teacher today would be making $100,000. Thankfully, reformers are trying to flip this equation. Here’s the game plan: raise starting pay, accelerate salary bumps to keep up with a young teacher’s rapid improvement in effectiveness, offer ways for teachers to take on additional responsibilities and thus make more money (like mentoring younger peers or taking on more students), and offer portable retirement benefits that allow people to build retirement wealth without signing on for a lifetime of teaching. Finance this all by allowing class sizes to rise modestly, maximizing smart uses of technology, and trimming the number of aides and specialists our schools employ.
While it is tempting to hold Therrien to blame for his poor decision-making, I really do think that the the system deserves much of the blame: it is wrong for the system to arbitrarily reward teachers for master’s degrees rather than for demonstrating effectiveness in the classroom; it is wrong that teachers are paid for the numbers of years they’ve spent in a given school district rather than on the basis of effectiveness; it is also wrong that teacher compensation is tilted towards the end of the life cycle rather than the beginning, when it makes a far bigger difference in terms of building an adult life.

But rather than blame a dysfunctional public sector, a large number of young people are convinced that Wall Street is to blame for their woes. One can make a plausible case that Wall Street really is to blame for some of our larger economic problems. Yet the salary schedule for teachers has been a problem for a very long time, and pouring more money into a system that doesn’t work when times are flush doesn’t really solve these problems. Indeed, it leads us to ignore them, and allow the problems to grow more severe.

...It is easy to anticipate some objections: (1) I am trying to pit young teachers against old teachers; (2) I am deflecting blame from Wall Street to the public school system; (3) I am denying that anyone who gets any master’s degree is entitled to a high level of economic security at taxpayer expense. I will definitely cop to (3). As for (2), I’m arguing that we can reform the financial system and teacher compensation at the same time. And on (1), my interest is not really in pitting one group of teachers against another; instead, it is to ask citizens of our cities and towns to ask hard questions about whether we’re distributing teacher compensation in the smartest way. This process probably will reveal some tensions and clashing interests among teachers, but that’s inevitable in any organization that is seeking to become more effective.
Surprisingly, he doesn't anticipate "teaching to the test" objections, nor does he acknowledge that part of the thinking behind "backloading" is reducing the notoriously high teacher burnout rate, which he himself alludes to (though this in turn invites the counter that "backloading" arguably merely results in teachers burning out sooner). And he's really only talking about career prospects for aspiring schoolteachers--though you could easily enough extend some of his points to the prospects for BAs/MAs in general, IMO, in an economy increasingly characterized by low-wage service jobs and expectations that workers will change jobs every few years.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:39 PM   #352
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Occupy Wall Street Blotter - By Nathaniel Botwinick - The Corner - National Review Online

Quote:
11/10/11: “Send in the Clowns,” Two Dressed as Clowns Arrested at Occupy Wall Street
Hannah Morgan and Louis Jargow were arrested for climbing the barricades surrounding the statue of the bull at Wall Street. They then performed a variety of antics before their arrest for disorderly behavior.

11/10/11: Occupy Atlanta Shelter Tests Positive for Tuberculosis
Several people at the Atlanta shelter have contracted tuberculosis. At least one of those infected has contracted the more dangerous, drug-resistant form of TB. The shelter is one of the largest encampments at Occupy Atlanta.

11/10/11: Six more arrests at Occupy Fresno
Six people were arrested last night in Fresno for failure to disperse. This brings the weekly total of arrests at Occupy Fresno to 55.

11/10/11: Sotheby’s Also Targeted by Occupy Wall Street, 8 Arrested
Eight protesters were arrested for attempting to storm Sotheby’s during its final sale of the fall season. They were there in support of the Teamsters union, which is currently engaged in a labor dispute with Sotheby’s.

11/10/11: Man Shot to Death at Occupy Oakland
A young man was shot fatally in the head outside the Occupy Oakland gathering Thursday evening. There are still no suspects or leads in the case.

11/10/11: Burlington, Vt
Police said preliminary investigations show a 35-year-old military veteran fatally shot himself in the head Thursday at an Occupy Wall Street encampment.

11/9/11: 39 Arrests at Berkeley
Thirty-nine people were arrested at Berkeley as part of OccupyCal. Protesters set up tents despite Chancellor Robert Birgeneau’s request that they refrain. Thirty-two students and one faculty member were among those arrested. The majority of the arrests were for obstruction of justice or unlawful assembly. Two arrests were for assault and battery.

11/9/11: Occupy Wall Street Protester Assaults EMT
An EMT was injured at Occupy Wall Street. Joshua Ehrenberg, 20, of Rochester, NY, was arrested for felony assault and obstructing governmental administration for attacking the EMT. The EMT was injured when Mr. Ehrenberg’s friends, in an attempt to prevent NYPD officers from assisting the EMT, fell on either a barricade or a ladder, which trapped the EMT underneath. The EMT suffered injuries to his ankle and knee.

11/9/11: Occupy Wall Street Protester Arrested for Public Lewdness
Xavier Maslowsky, 25, was arrested for exposing himself to others at Zuccotti Park.

11/9/11: Occupy Wall Street Protesters Arrested for Blocking Sidewalk with Square-Dance Lesson
A group of 50 protesters staged a square dance on the sidewalk around the plaza at Liberty and Cedar. The revelers were told repeatedly to disperse. Zachary Kamul, 25, was given two summonses for disorderly conduct and possession of a weapon when he refused to disperse. Sebastian Posada, 24, was charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest when he attempted to run from police into the middle of Broadway.

11/5/11: Man Arrested at Occupy Wall Street for Urinating on an NYPD van
Edgar Rivera, 26, was arrested for relieving himself at 1:20 a.m. on an NYPD van. He attempted to escape, but was captured a half a block away. He was charged with disorderly conduct.

11/5/11: 19 Arrested at Occupy Atlanta
Protesters gathered in support of police pressure on Occupy Atlanta were subjected to arrests. Two were arrested for failing to leave Woodruff Park after the 11 p.m. close and 17 were arrested for obstructing traffic after leaving the park.

11/5/11: 20 Arrested at Occupy Wall Street
Most of the protesters were arrested for disorderly conduct, though three were arrested for assaulting a police officer. The incidents occurred at Foley Square in Lower Manhattan, near the New York State Court of Appeals. According to witnesses, police had asked the protesters to refrain from blocking the sidewalks and the stairs to the courthouse.

11/5/11: Woman arrested at Occupy LA for setting another person’s clothes on fire
She was charged with suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon.

11/5/11: Woman arrested at Occupy LA for striking a man with a tent pole
She was charged with suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon.

11/4/11: Occupy Fort Carson Protester Arrested for $10 Million Arson
Benjamin Gilmore, 29, was arrested on suspicion of arson, burglary, and criminal mischief in connection to a fire on October 24 in a construction site.

11/4/11: Occupy Wall Street protester arrested for violence in McDonald’s
Fisika Bezabeh rioted inside the McDonald’s by Wall Street at 2 a.m., when workers refused to give him free food. He tore a credit card reader from the counter and threw it at employees. Mr. Bezabeh has been charged with criminal mischief.

11/4/11: Bronx Teacher Arrested for Assaulting Police
David Suker of Bronx Regional High School was arrested for knocking a police officer off his scooter using a shopping cart. He is charged with attempted assault, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, and obstructing governmental administration. This is his second arrest; he was previously arrested during the October 1 march across the Brooklyn Bridge.

11/4/11: Occupy DC Attacks Americans for Prosperity event
Protesters attempted to storm the building where the AFP was holding a conference. Afterwards, they assaulted two elderly women, sending them to the hospital, and blockaded the streets surrounding the building.

11/3/11: 15 Arrested Outside Goldman Sachs
Fifteen protesters were arrested outside Goldman Sachs, including Christopher Hedges of The Nation Institute and Reverend Billy of the Church of Earthalajuh. The protesters staged a trial of Goldman Sachs executives and were arrested when they proceeded to sit and block the entrance to Goldman Sachs.

11/3/11: Occupy Oakland Riots
Riot police used tear gas and other methods to disperse Occupy Oakland rioters. The protesters lit barricades on fire, hurled rocks, explosives, and other projectiles at police. Massive acts of vandalism were committed against several banks. Several dozen were eventually arrested.

11/2/11: Occupy Philadelphia takes over Comcast Headquarters
Occupy Philadelphia protesters sat in Comcast’s lobby and demanded repayment of its tax abatement. Nine were arrested for trespass.

11/2/11: Tonye Ikebutosin Arrested for Rape at Occupy Wall Street
A 26-year-old man from Crown Heights was arrested for the sexual assault and rape of a fellow Occupy Wall Street protester. He raped the 18-year-old woman after sharing a tent with her. He is also accused of sexually assaulting a 17-year-old woman after helping her set up her tent. Iketubosin has been working in the Occupy Wall Street kitchen.

10/27/11: 14 Arrested in NYC for March in Support of Occupy Oakland
Protesters took over the streets and marched through lower Manhattan, resulting in arrests for disorderly conduct, rioting, and resisting arrest.

10/25/11: 53 Arrests at Occupy Atlanta
Fifty-three people were arrested at Occupy Atlanta. Among those arrested was State Senator Vincent Fort. This was a reversal from the previous acceptance of Occupy Atlanta by Atlanta mayor Kasim Reed. Mayor Reed explained his decision by saying, “Occupy Atlanta protesters attempted to hold an unsanctioned concert over the weekend … Last week, demonstrators inserted wire hangers into electrical sockets to create additional power sources … [There has been] a persistent and dangerous disregard for public safety.”

10/25/11: 75 Arrested During Attempted Clearing of Occupy Oakland
Police arrested 75 people while attempting to disperse the Occupy Oakland encampment.

10/23/11: David Park, serial sexual assaulter, arrested
David Park, who attempted to rape several women, was finally arrested by the NYPD. The women declined to press charges, but the NYPD held him on an open-container violation.

10/22/11: NYPD arrests 30 in OWS March in Harlem
Police arrested 30 protesters, including Cornel West, for blocking the entrance to the Harlem police precinct. The protesters were demonstrating against the NYPD’s “stop and frisk” procedures.

10/14/11: 14 Arrested by NYPD in Marches Connected with Park Cleaning
Fourteen protesters arrested despite Mayor Bloomberg’s decision to halt the cleaning of the park.

10/11/11: Occupy D.C.
Capitol Police arrested six protesters who were charged with unlawful conduct-demonstrating in a Capitol building.

10/8/11: Occupy D.C.
Protesters tried to storm the Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum to hang anti-war banners on the displays. One woman was arrested.

10/1/11: 700 Arrested for March Across the Brooklyn Bridge
Seven hundred Occupy Wall Street protesters were arrested for disorderly conduct and blocking vehicular traffic when they proceeded to block the roadway on the Brooklyn Bridge.
Ok, to be fair, there is one case of arrests at a Tea Party rally.

Quote:
11/5/09: Tea Party Rally D.C.
Capitol Police arrested nine protesters Thursday morning in the Hart Senate office building as thousands of Tea Party activists descended on the Capitol building to protest the trillion dollar health care bill and government spending.
But still...
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:49 PM   #353
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Conservative-on-liberal / marxist / communist protest schadenfreude?
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:22 PM   #354
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Conservative-on-liberal / marxist / communist protest schadenfreude?


Can you post that in a simpler sentence?

I'm just a country boy.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:32 PM   #355
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Ah, yes, the "leftists are snobs" trope.

Anything else for us?
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:41 PM   #356
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Ah, yes, the "leftists are snobs" trope.

Anything else for us?


You said that, not me.

I did ask you a question:


"Conservative-on-liberal / marxist / communist protest schadenfreude?"


Can you post that in a simpler sentence?

I'm just a country boy.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:35 PM   #357
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Occupy Wall Street Blotter - By Nathaniel Botwinick - The Corner - National Review Online



Ok, to be fair, there is one case of arrests at a Tea Party rally.



But still...
"Democracy is messy" - Donald Rumsfeld
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:02 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by the iron horse

You said that, not me.

I did ask you a question:.
Perhaps people would be more willing to answer your questions if you didn't consistently ignore theirs.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:31 PM   #359
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Cities struggle to deal with occupy movement - CNN.com

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Cities struggle to deal with occupy movement

San Francisco (CNN) -- Police in riot gear moved into the Occupy Oakland encampment Monday, tearing down tents and arresting some protesters, the latest effort by city officials across the country to gain control over a movement that some leaders say has become a public safety and health threat.

Oakland, California, police, aided by dozens of officers from nearby jurisdictions, arrested 32 people in the effort to clear Frank Ogawa Plaza near City Hall before dawn, Interim Chief Howard Jordan said. There were no reports of injuries or complaints of abuse, he said.

The camp had become an unbearable drain on city resources, an economic threat to nearby businesses and a danger to public safety, Mayor Jean Quan said.

The Oakland operation will likely cost the city between $300,000 and $500,000, City Administrator Deanna Santana said.

In Oregon, Portland police made more than 50 arrests Sunday as they cleared two parks -- Chapman and Lownsdale Square -- of protesters.

Philadelphia, Mayor Michael Nutter said Sunday that what started as a peaceful protest 39 days ago has given way to increasing public safety and public health concerns.

"Occupy Philly has changed," Nutter said. "We're seeing serious health and safety issues playing out on an almost daily basis. ... The people of Occupy Philly have also changed and their intentions have changed. And all of this is not good for Philadelphia."
If the violence, vandalism, squaller and anti-capitalistic radicalism wasn't enough to turn Americans off this movement... wait until the bill starts coming due.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:20 AM   #360
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Good riddance, Zuccotti.
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