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Old 10-30-2011, 05:30 PM   #256
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please note: other than Romney, every single Republican running for president is clearly crazier than Grayson.

that's the difference. our "crazies" are oddities on the sidelines; yours dominate the party.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:57 PM   #257
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please note: other than Romney, every single Republican running for president is clearly crazier than Grayson.

that's the difference. our "crazies" are oddities on the sidelines; yours dominate the party.
If by crazy you mean recognizing the need to return to free market based economic principles, reign in out-of-control government spending, return to sound dollar policies, reform the tax system to promote economic growth by rewarding rather than punishing success, eliminate social programs that abet dependence and discourage self-reliance, protect our borders, end over-regulation and restore constitutional sanity to our courts and legislation.

I say bring on the crazy.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:29 PM   #258
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If by crazy you mean recognizing the need to return to free market based economic principles, reign in out-of-control government spending, return to sound dollar policies, reform the tax system to promote economic growth by rewarding rather than punishing success, eliminate social programs that abet dependence and discourage self-reliance, protect our borders, end over-regulation and restore constitutional sanity to our courts and legislation.

I say bring on the crazy.


well, then, you must be incredibly disappointed by the GOP in general and the people they've casted to entertain you by running for President.

i can't tell the difference between the GOP debate and the Housewives of New Jersey Part 2 Reunion.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:51 PM   #259
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well, then, you must be incredibly disappointed by the GOP in general and the people they've casted to entertain you by running for President.

i can't tell the difference between the GOP debate and the Housewives of New Jersey Part 2 Reunion.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:59 PM   #260
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I love this clip from a few weeks ago.... Jon nails it again comparing the coverage Fox gave to the TP and now OWS.

Parks and Demonstration - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 10/05/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:55 PM   #261
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return to sound dollar policies
It would be great if any of the current candidates actually had a plan that did that.

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reform the tax system to promote economic growth by rewarding rather than punishing success,
A.k.a - tax cuts for the rich! It solved all our problems before, right?

There is a (naive) beauty to the Republican's position on taxes. Everyone wants to be rich. You there! You only make $33,000 a year? Well, if you work hard enough, then you too could end up making 475 times more than a base-level employee. And if you ever get that rich, you don't want the big bad Government taking more of your money, do you? Why, you'd really be hurting if you had to pay a marginally higher tax rate that would leave you scraping by with only millions of dollars a year. I mean, isn't one of the perks of becoming rich the ability to take advantage of all the loopholes that would allow you to pay less than your share, anyway?

oh, but until you actually do strike it rich, not only will you not get a tax cut, you'll actually end up paying more in taxes while the rich pay less. But you're okay with that, right? Some day your prince will come, amirite?

Or, to put it more briefly: "screw you, I got mine."

(This, coincidentally, fits right in with how a supposedly Christian nation should behave.)

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protect our borders
The dirty secret here is that Obama has, without drawing much attention to it (for better or worse), been a tougher defender of our borders than any previous Republican president.

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end over-regulation
Because it was the government watching too closely that led us to the current economic mess we're in?
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Old 11-01-2011, 02:36 PM   #262
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Salon, Nov. 1
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Are physical occupations a sustainable tactic for Occupy Wall Street? There are signs in New York and around the country that life in public parks and plazas is presenting unexpected difficulties for the economic justice protesters. Chief among them is security, and particularly the attraction of disruptive people to Occupy sites who have no interest in the movement. “It’s gotten really bad in the last couple weeks, the population of criminals and predators. Fully half the camp down there now don’t have anything to do with the movement. They don’t go on marches. They’re just down there to eat and cause trouble,” says Fetzer Mills, Jr., a 51-year-old from Memphis who has been working on the Occupy security team at Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan. “We are overwhelmed.”

I ask Mills what the security team can do when there’s some kind of disruption, given that Zuccotti is a public space. “We can’t do anything. We’re totally powerless. All we can do is walk up and talk to them. And the police will not come in there to do things,” he says. Mills’ account broadly matches an observation made by the Daily News on Sunday:
The number of non-participants taking advantage of the resources that the activists have provided--free food, clothing, tarps and sleeping bags, hand-rolled smokes and even books, not to mention a sense of protection from the police, who have increasingly left the park to protect itself--has exploded over the past week, and is threatening to define the occupation itself and overshadow its political and social ambitions. Despite those resources, “spanging” (spare-changing, or panhandling) at Zuccotti has become commonplace, as have fights, near-fights and open-air drug sales.
...The Times, meanwhile, has a story on homeless people--including those with mental disorders and with no interest in Occupy Wall Street--making a home at the occupations:
“There are a lot of them here that have mental problems and that need help. They are in the wrong place,” said Jessica Anderson, 22, who is herself homeless, sitting with friends on a tarp at the Los Angeles site. “They have been creating more problems. There was one guy who showed up last night and he would not shut up: Saying all kinds of crazy stuff all night.”
Many of these homeless people were undoubtedly in plain sight before Occupy. It’s a problem that giant bureaucracies in cities like New York and Los Angeles have failed to address, so it’s hard to see how the occupiers will be able to grapple with these issues over the long term.
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:35 PM   #263
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Last night on Olbermann on Current TV ( he's been great on OWS coverage, almost wall to wall) he interviewed a protestor ( sorry didn't get his name) and he mentioned that they suspect that the cops are encouraging the homeless and mentally unstable to go to Zuccotti Park. They are working on evidence to prove this claim.
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #264
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I watched the 1st segment of Olbermann tonight and the protestor David Schuster (what's wrong with his mouth anyway?) interviewed said, "We know capitalism is the problem, which is why Occupy Oakland is making a call-out to the entire nation-the entire world-to start planning for general strikes. We know that we create the wealth for the 1% through our labor and what we need to do is retract our labor, and the value it creates for the 1%, by general striking."

She then went on to encourage the protesting of "banks and corporations that don't honor the general strike," for teachers and city employees to walk off the job and for citizens to occupy foreclosed homes and properties.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and predict Nov, 2nd will be the beginning of the end of OWS.

However justified the anger and frustration of the early movement may have been in regards to the Wall St bailouts, student loans and income gaps... more and more of the movement is now being hijacked by radical revolutionaries and anarchists.

Cue the mob.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:21 PM   #265
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I watched the 1st segment of Olbermann tonight
Ugh, why punish yourself like that?

Is he still every bit the blowhard?

Anyway, the Tea Party was quickly co-opted by corporate interests and Republican operatives, and I am just as sure that the OWS movement has already been co-opted by anarchists and people out there wanting to bang a bongo (and the Democrats will latch on and destroy it soon enough).

I still think you grossly over-exaggerate the influence or potential danger to U.S. peace and order from the "radical revolutionaries" out there with scarves over their faces, as well as students preaching socialism or anarchy on college campuses.

These folks will get white-collar jobs as temps and slowly have the liberal tendencies drained out of them as they grow older and become paranoid of losing their small piece of the middle class pie to poor people. They may even die conservatives.

And so the cycle begins again.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:19 PM   #266
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Anyway, the Tea Party was quickly co-opted by corporate interests and Republican operatives
Now how can that be when people here say all the time that, "the GOP is held hostage by the Tea Party extremists"?

Anyway, the point is they engaged the political system. They had their voices heard at the ballot box.

Mobs work to undermine the system. That's were Occupy Oakland is.

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These folks will get white-collar jobs as temps and slowly have the liberal tendencies drained out of them as they grow older and become paranoid of losing their small piece of the middle class pie to poor people. They may even die conservatives.

And so the cycle begins again.
Amazing what moving out of your parent's basement and having the responsibility of a family, a car payment, a house mortgage and bills will do a person.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:51 AM   #267
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INDY, have you nothing to offer but fear mongering?
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:16 AM   #268
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We know capitalism is the problem

more and more of the movement is now being hijacked by radical revolutionaries and anarchists.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:45 AM   #269
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It's becoming harder and harder to see how to make governments better in the western world without some wide sweeping change.

It's nothing to do with being anti-capitalist, but it is worrying that capitalism has gained some sort of moral value when it is just one theory of how economics should work for the betterment of society. Plus surely people can see how money and lobbyists in politics of all sorts hurt democracy and equality for all. I'm starting to believe a fairly radical change in government is needed but I can't see it happening when everything is weighted in favour of how it is now.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:49 AM   #270
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It's nothing to do with being anti-capitalist, but it is worrying that capitalism has gained some sort of moral value when it is just one theory of how economics should work for the betterment of society.
Excellent post.

It's become a religion for many, they've even shaped their Jesus around it.
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