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Old 09-30-2004, 07:56 PM   #46
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Well, I enjoyed it. I thought Kerry was excellent, Bush was good also. Bush had a couple of tentative moments when he repeated "'we're working hard", but well done, guys. The Republicans here know they're my good friends.
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Old 09-30-2004, 07:56 PM   #47
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Well, as part of the international public watching this debate, I stayed up until 4:30 a.m., and I have to say there was something I didn´t understand:

When talking about the International Criminal Court, Bush said that he is going to protect and value American interests first, that´s why he would not ratificate the ICC (and probably many other international treaties, example: How to dismantle an atomic bomb - just ratificate at the CTBT for a start, Mr. President).

At the same time, the U.S.A. and the two presidential candidates and many Americans who I spoke with on my recent travel, have the opinion that the U.S. is "the leader of the free world" and has interest in fulfillig this position, like "protecting the world" (all the preemptive strike arguments, we know better than the U.N. what to do), etc.

Thing is, the majority of the world is not always going to agree with the U.S. - that´s just a plain a fact (you can see that with the disagreements about the Iraq war).

How does Bush, or the average American, want to be leader of the world to some extent, when he is not ready to ratificate international treaties like the ICC treaty? How can the Americans take the right to think they know what is the right thing for all the world? If you want to be the leader of the world, imo the foreign policy has to change drastically.

Kerry was going into the right direction, by stating that he cares about international treaties, and that the current administration has failed to sign important treaties. But Bush (and, thats one thing that has always pissed Europeans off) advocates that his decisions (which, as an American President, he has to make for the Americans - not for the rest of the world) are the right ones for the rest of the world too, because they are "just right", he knows about that (I don´t know where from, has God told him?)

Somehow I don´t get it. Where do you want to stand now? For America, or for being a kind of leader of the (democratic, free etc.) world?
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Old 09-30-2004, 07:58 PM   #48
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the debate it's self was faily even... who actually gains the most from this debate depends on who's group can do a better job of spin. i don't think bush did as clear a job getting his points across, because i think if he did get his points across he coulda knocked kerry completely out of the race, and i'd be surprised if that's the result of this debate.
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:02 PM   #49
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I agree completely, hiphop.

My main criticism from day one of Bush has been his incessant disregard for international treaties. Now, thats fine if you are the leader of the United States (actually, its not fine - but at least you can understand his position), but what disturbed me was the number of times he kept saying 'you can't lead the world if you do this', or 'the leader of the world can't act like that...'. He said that far too many times for any person, let alone a person who has shown nothing but contempt for the ICC and the Kyoto Protocol, to name but a few international issues.

No, I don't want the US to elect a president that will serve the rest of the world before the US, but I don't want someone who has been as disrespectful with the international community as President Bush has been.

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Old 09-30-2004, 08:05 PM   #50
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my last statement before i head off to bed...

if bush's lead increases after this debate, kerry's toast.
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:06 PM   #51
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Bush also repeated about 20 times that "his opponent" (I think Kerry never used the word opponent, but correct me if I´m wrong) was unconcrete and always shifted positions, is too "unconcrete", the Americans need a strong Presindent, they know what he is standing for, etc.

Well, I haven´t followed all the discussions up until now, but to me Kerry stated his positions quite clearly in this debate (Bush too, but he was pausing more, and sometimes he didn´t seem to know what to reply for a moment).
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:09 PM   #52
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anyone watching the daily show? - by far the funniest post debate commentary
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:12 PM   #53
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To be fair, I do think Kerry has made it easy for the media to interpret him as inconsistent. Indeed, I daresay that there may be a degree of inconsistency to the man. However, I do think that tonight he did attempt to ratify that particular problem, and was succesful most of the time.

There was one time when he did very blatantly contradict himself, however, during the first half, when he didn't seem all that comfortable. It was in the second half where he was a lot stronger, and Bush did get weaker.

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Old 09-30-2004, 08:13 PM   #54
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ok maybe one more thing before i go to bed... gotta support my guy a little.

talk all ya want about bush's pauses. fine... kerry is a smoother debator. but again, how this debate will effect the poll will be based on who can spin this in their favor the best. kerry is thought, right or wrong, to be a guy who wants it both ways. the fact that he stated that the war in iraq "was a colosal (*sp) mistake" and 2 minutes later said that the troops in iraq are not dying for a mistake ain't gonna help him, and the fact that he attempted to slam bush on not supplying the troops with the proper body armor to fight in iraq when kerry himself voted against the body armor in the senate... that ain't gonna help either.
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:15 PM   #55
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Very true.

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Old 09-30-2004, 08:17 PM   #56
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Daily Show is my choice for Post-Debate Commentary............hilarious

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Old 09-30-2004, 08:21 PM   #57
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John Kerry is the master debater!!
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by EdgeVox
Kerry won.........though I do acknowledge that Bush did pretty good as well......excellent debate.......Jim Lehrer did an awesome job

Much agree EdgeVox on everything!
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:28 PM   #59
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Kerry won it no doubt but did he win it well enough?
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:36 PM   #60
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Kerry did well, but he did fail to mention one thing - what his plan would be in Iraq. I picked up on it and while listening to NBC speak to one of his advisors; he was asked what Kerry's big weakness was tonight and that was it. He didn't get anything across. Whether anyone else picked up on it though is in the air.

You gotta give it to him though. Through gritted teeth, I have to say he is smooth.
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