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Old 11-05-2009, 07:31 PM   #91
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This is an issue of discrimination, the government privileges straight people with special rights and benefits that other couples don't enjoy. There are no good reasons for this unequal treatment, so the reactionaries have to use an argument of mob rule to enforce their position upon everybody rather than embarrass themselves with arguments against gay marriage.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:10 AM   #92
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the world is a vastly more populated, colonized place because of straight people. mankind would all but disappear if we all suddenly chose to be gay.
And by giving equal rights to gays everyone will suddenly choose to be gay and civilization will be doomed to extinction, right?

Good Lord, Indy.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:34 AM   #93
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the world is a vastly more interesting, creative place because of gay people. you would all miss us if we all suddenly chose to be straight.
And by not giving equal rights to gays, every gay will suddenly choose to be straight and civilization will be doomed to be less interesting and creative, right?

Good Lord, Irvine.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:45 AM   #94
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A 3rd grader could have done that better...
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:55 AM   #95
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If civil unions gave all the same rights and benefits as marriage - would that take care of A_Wanderer's (valid) concern of government interference?

If civil unions are not acceptable - is the gay marriage fight really about perceived social acceptance instead of actual rights?
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:57 AM   #96
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If civil unions gave all the same rights and benefits as marriage - would that take care of A_Wanderer's (valid) concern of government interference?

If civil unions are not acceptable - is the gay marriage fight really about perceived social acceptance instead of actual rights?
If it isn't the same as what straight couples get then it isn't equal, and that includes the title of marriage.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:05 AM   #97
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What exactly your exposure to teens across the country?
military (ask the young soldiers what they think about don't ask, don't tell), large family, neighborhood full of kids. Does that make me an expert on teens? No. I was just trying to point out that the attitude toward being gay seems worse than when I was a teen. If anything, it is not improving.

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There are still those that believe black people are black because they are "marked" should we give their ignorance equal say? Ignorance is ignorance no matter if it's a majority or minority.
That is sort of my point - that calling someone ignorant on the issue, or misinformed, or illogical - is much easier to swallow than being called a bigot.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:07 AM   #98
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If it isn't the same as what straight couples get then it isn't equal, and that includes the title of marriage.
Let's assume that laws are passed that give civil unions 100% of the same rights as marriages - with the exception of title of marriage.

To you this would be unnacceptable? Why?
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:14 AM   #99
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the reactionaries have to use an argument of mob rule to enforce their position upon everybody rather than embarrass themselves with arguments against gay marriage.


this is wonderfully succinct.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:16 AM   #100
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And by not giving equal rights to gays, every gay will suddenly choose to be straight and civilization will be doomed to be less interesting and creative, right?

Good Lord, Irvine.



why is someone who is SO AFRAID of government TYRANNY and views taxes as SERVITUDE and worries about health care taking away his FREEDOM be so unconcerned -- and fully admitting, right here -- that there are groups of americans who live under TYRANNY and SERVITUDE and don't have FREEDOM nor their CIVIL RIGHTS.

Good Lord, INDY, you embarrass yourself.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:18 AM   #101
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To you this would be unnacceptable? Why?


would it be acceptable for you and your wife to only be granted a civil union and not a marriage? why?
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:26 AM   #102
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military (ask the young soldiers what they think about don't ask, don't tell), large family, neighborhood full of kids. Does that make me an expert on teens? No. I was just trying to point out that the attitude toward being gay seems worse than when I was a teen. If anything, it is not improving.
I worked for years in youth groups in TX of all places and I see a night and day difference between the attitudes of the teenagers and their parents. I've read many polls that don't agree with your assessment either.

As far as the military goes, I'm not sure. I do think there are certain cultures that attract homophobia, but I've also met a lot of soldiers that just don't give a shit, they don't care who serves next to them they don't have the attitude that all men can't control their urges(straight or gay).

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That is sort of my point - that calling someone ignorant on the issue, or misinformed, or illogical - is much easier to swallow than being called a bigot.
Some are ignorant, and some are flat out bigots, I usually call them like I see them.

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Let's assume that laws are passed that give civil unions 100% of the same rights as marriages - with the exception of title of marriage.

To you this would be unnacceptable? Why?
Seperate but equal? I think I've heard that before...
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:37 AM   #103
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A 3rd grader could have done that better...

Sounds like the sort of thing you tell your dates.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:41 AM   #104
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Sounds like the sort of thing you tell your dates.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:50 AM   #105
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would it be acceptable for you and your wife to only be granted a civil union and not a marriage? why?
The civil union component of my marriage is the government granted legal rights. The actual marriage is the historical definition of the union between a man and a woman. You are asking to redefine a term that is already in place - and I am asking why? If it is for the rights given/protected by the government - it seems civil unions take care of that issue. There would be no need to redfine the term.

To many, it seems redefining marriage is more about public perception than it is about actual legal status.
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