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Old 11-10-2015, 08:39 PM   #16
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I'm gonna do a little cut-and-paste of my own, only in my case it's myself I'm quoting, from elsewhere, a while back. Really saves effort.

-------------------

It's one of those awful terms that has been well and truly appropriated by one or another side for wholly varying reasons, but... yeah... I'm pretty wary of the mob mentality, and some people ought to maybe wonder if they are adding to the sum total of human misery. I'm also wary of anyone whose perspective is limited to 'oh well, pc just means being decent and considerate to people'. No, it doesn't. Not only. If it did, there would be no problem for the most part.

Colour me exceedingly cautious about the march to a bland and bleached future without wanting to be lumped in with some sort of catch-all category of bigot (and so what anyway, I know my own mind).

All of that said, I am also inclined to seriously wonder sometimes how much of this even exists, even is a thing, outside of the financially engaged likes of The Guardian (clicks! clicks! clicks!), subsections of Tumblr, and Twitter, and maybe a subset of college populations in the US. With periodic code-red-freakout consequences for real-world organisations that happen to bump up against that social media feverdream.

So, to the extent that I see it, I don't much like what I'm seeing, but I try not to overconflate. Part of me suspects a lot of these people, well-meaning enough if devoid of any sense of nuance, humour or irony, know or care little about historic political objectives of the progressive side of politics, probably feel pretty helpless and hopeless about the world writ large (as do we all), took a main course of cultural studies at some point, and think tinpot 'victories' over this or that act of speech are what it's all about. It does put one in mind a little of Mao's earnest youth in the sixties, who were in the end simply useful idiots in the Great Helmsman's bid to divide and conquer.
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:54 PM   #17
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What I actually think are that fanatical modes of thought are a peril for any human movement greater than a bridge club (and probably even then). You're seeing it right now in the struggle session that is the GOP primary debates. Nobody is immune, and good intentions or apparent righteousness can never be carte blanche for abandoning moderation (by which I do not mean spineless split-the-difference 'centrism').
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:34 AM   #18
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As someone who is both a student at a university (Go Ducks) and a resident assistant, I whole heartedly support social justice measures. I want my residence hall to be a safe space for residents and I don't want people being racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. This Halloween I had to explain to someone why they shouldn't dress up as Pocahontas. But that involved opening up a dialogue and not shutting people down. It involves long conversations and challenging assumptions and ideas. I think the students at Mizzou are fighting for the right thing. Systemic racism is a big problem at schools all over the nation but especially at Mizzou and there needs to be a dialogue opened and the people who have been involved in racist incidents or support racist actions need to listen to students of color as they voice their concerns.


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Old 11-11-2015, 02:43 AM   #19
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I just don't understand why dressing as a historical figure for Halloween would not be ok. Are they exaggerating features in an offensive manner? Are they running around with their hand tapping against their mouth going Oh wo wo o o?

I realize my connection to my native American nationality is a couple generations removed, so I'm only a quarter native, but I love my heritage, and hold very tightly to it. But I can't for the life of my understand why dressing as Pocahontas would be offensive...

EDIT: And I'm saying this because I'd like to have a meaningful conversation about this topic, as lately I've kinda been a bit awestruck by how ANGRY people have been getting towards individuals who dress as Native Americans for events...yet there's all this pushback about the whole Redskins name. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but the former doesn't offend me in the slightest. The latter absolutely does.
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
As someone who is both a student at a university (Go Ducks) and a resident assistant, I whole heartedly support social justice measures. I want my residence hall to be a safe space for residents and I don't want people being racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. This Halloween I had to explain to someone why they shouldn't dress up as Pocahontas. But that involved opening up a dialogue and not shutting people down. It involves long conversations and challenging assumptions and ideas. I think the students at Mizzou are fighting for the right thing. Systemic racism is a big problem at schools all over the nation but especially at Mizzou and there needs to be a dialogue opened and the people who have been involved in racist incidents or support racist actions need to listen to students of color as they voice their concerns.


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Old 11-11-2015, 02:53 AM   #21
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I just don't understand why dressing as a historical figure for Halloween would not be ok. Are they exaggerating features in an offensive manner? Are they running around with their hand tapping against their mouth going Oh wo wo o o?



I realize my connection to my native American nationality is a couple generations removed, so I'm only a quarter native, but I love my heritage, and hold very tightly to it. But I can't for the life of my understand why dressing as Pocahontas would be offensive...



EDIT: And I'm saying this because I'd like to have a meaningful conversation about this topic, as lately I've kinda been a bit awestruck by how ANGRY people have been getting towards individuals who dress as Native Americans for events...yet there's all this pushback about the whole Redskins name. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but the former doesn't offend me in the slightest. The latter absolutely does.

I'll let an actual Native American explain this one:

"But you don’t understand what it feels like to be me. I am a Native person. You are (most likely) a white person. You walk through life everyday never having the fear of someone mis-representing your people and your culture. You don’t have to worry about the vast majority of your people living in poverty, struggling with alcoholism, domestic violence, hunger, and unemployment caused by 500+ years of colonialism and federal policies aimed at erasing your existence. You don’t walk through life everyday feeling invisible, because the only images the public sees of you are fictionalized stereotypes that don’t represent who you are at all. You don’t know what it’s like to care about something so deeply and know at your core that it’s so wrong, and have others in positions of power dismiss you like you’re some sort of over-sensitive freak.

You are in a position of power. You might not know it, but you are. Simply because of the color of your skin, you have been afforded opportunities and privilege, because our country was built on a foundation of white supremacy. That’s probably a concept that’s too much for you to handle right now, when all you wanted to do was dress up as a PocaHottie for Halloween, but it’s true.

I am not in a position of power. Native people are not in positions of power. By dressing up as a fake Indian, you are asserting your power over us, and continuing to oppress us. That should worry you."


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Old 11-11-2015, 03:22 AM   #22
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My goodness this article is good:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...t-yale/414810/
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:01 AM   #23
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Political correctness is a term invented by people who are pissed that they cannot be assholes with impunity in 2015. No one is trying to take away their freedom of speech; rather, people are using their freedom of speech to criticize people who are shitheads, and the shitheads are pissed. "I want to be able to joke about minorities and women without being told I'm a bad person for doing so." What's funny about punching down? Nothing, but don't tell that to the right. It's political correctness run amok!!1!1!!

To be fair, it's not just the right. It's also guys like Bill Maher, who is also a major asshole.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
SOPO - Society of the Perpetually Offended
To be clear, this is certainly not just a problem on one side of the political spectrum.

See: Starbucks cups
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:51 AM   #25
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Exactly. Also see the Republican Presidential debates only going to Fox News because it's their "safe space".

The intent behind creating "safe spaces" is great. Expecting people to respect others and having serious dialogues on why dressing up as a "cholo" is disrespectful is great. I feel that some things have gone a bit too far, like was mentioned in that fantastic Atlantic article.

However, what is going on at Mizzou is quite different and systemic. I'm glad the students there are taking a stand.

Mizzou Death Threat Maker Identified as 19-Year-Old Hunter Park - The Daily Beast
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
I'll let an actual Native American explain this one:
What's that supposed to mean?
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:48 PM   #27
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To be clear, this is certainly not just a problem on one side of the political spectrum.

See: Starbucks cups
Oh God. Ashley went and pointed this one out to me. It had somehow slipped under my radar.

As with many non-controversies, this is an issue that 5 seconds of google-based research could solve. Starbucks loves hawking Christmas merchandise with the name slapped right on it. That has not changed and will not change because they decided to try a minimalist cup for one year.

The problem is that the internet is an all-hours platform for ignorant people to make angry snap judgments on topics they know nothing about. Many of us have done it, I know I certainly have, and it goes a long way toward explaining why internet discourse can be so terrible. That approach to self-expression translates to real life too, as can be seen the link to the Atlantic posted above wherein a Yale student screams at her senior administrator for having a different outlook on the fundamental purpose of higher education.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:32 PM   #28
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You know what's offensive? Christmas cups on November 11th.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:43 PM   #29
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What's that supposed to mean?

Did you read the quote that I posted afterwards? As a white person I can't explain why it's offensive as well as a Native American, so that's why I posted the quote and article written by a Native American.


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Old 11-11-2015, 10:44 PM   #30
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I was just fucking with you, dude .
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