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Old 05-27-2016, 09:12 PM   #151
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Kicking Milo Yiannopoulos' ass is something we should all promote as reasonable human beings.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:24 PM   #152
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Anyone wanna take a crack at defending this, or at defending the legions who *did* take a crack at defending this?

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:38 PM   #153
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Political Correctness

Point me in the direction of a story that has more to do with political correctness than a story in which an invited speaker is threatened with violence because of his political views, while security stands idly by.

I actually don't have any ill will toward the principles of BLM - I backed nearly every point they made in their infancy. But the stifling of dissenting opinions on college campuses is getting out of hand, and we really can't afford to make this a Left vs. Right (or white vs. black, for that matter) issue.

And yes, we can all play the "find something outrageous on the Internet" game. However, it isn't anywhere close to honest to say this is a universally agreed upon outrageous incident. Several university departments have supported the actions of the students, and professors have resigned over his mere presence at the school.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:43 PM   #154
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Kicking Milo Yiannopoulos' ass is something we should all promote as reasonable human beings.

Are you the type to say, "well, let's take a look at those cartoons before passing any moral judgements, here," too?


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Old 05-27-2016, 10:11 PM   #155
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Point me in the direction of a story that has more to do with political correctness than a story in which an invited speaker is threatened with violence because of his political views, while security stands idly by.

I actually don't have any ill will toward the principles of BLM - I backed nearly every point they made in their infancy. But the stifling of dissenting opinions on college campuses is getting out of hand, and we really can't afford to make this a Left vs. Right (or white vs. black, for that matter) issue.

And yes, we can all play the "find something outrageous on the Internet" game. However, it isn't anywhere close to honest to say this is a universally agreed upon outrageous incident. Several university departments have supported the actions of the students, and professors have resigned over his mere presence at the school.

So I'll admit I didn't watch the whole clip, truth is most of what Breitbart posts and twists I can't waste my time on.

I didn't see any violence in the sections I viewed, was there any?

I hate that Breitbart and now his viewers and commenters make every move that a black person does into a "BLM" movement. Did these protestors id themselves as part?

Ultimately the question is about the security, at what point do you stop free speech? Right?

Oh, and I loved the part that a bunch of white college kids started chanting "get a job", lol
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Old 05-28-2016, 01:49 AM   #156
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Political Correctness

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So I'll admit I didn't watch the whole clip, truth is most of what Breitbart posts and twists I can't waste my time on.



I didn't see any violence in the sections I viewed, was there any?



I hate that Breitbart and now his viewers and commenters make every move that a black person does into a "BLM" movement. Did these protestors id themselves as part?



Ultimately the question is about the security, at what point do you stop free speech? Right?



Oh, and I loved the part that a bunch of white college kids started chanting "get a job", lol

Truth be told, I've no love affair with breitbart either, as they've completely sold out for the web traffic pro-Trump coverage brings. I do have a bit of a soft spot for Yiannoppoulos, though, I can't deny this.

Apparently the guy threaten to "swing on him," or something to that degree, and the girl gets a hand within seemingly an inch or so of his face. No actual violence, but we certainly can't start moving in a direction where we decide this is a productive way of settling differences of opinions.

I'd have to watch the whole video again to get quotes, but it seems as though all news sources are in agreement in identifying them as BLM activists, and I don't believe they or the school has said otherwise (I believe someone got an interview with the guy)

I think there's an interesting discussion about what constitutes yelling fire in a crowded theater to be had though. I think this is what the anti-PC crowd and the progressives are generally disagreeing about.
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:39 AM   #157
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I do have a bit of a soft spot for Yiannoppoulos, though, I can't deny this.
I'm baffled as to how any half-reasonable person could, honestly. At best he's an amusing cartoon character for wannabe edgy 15 year olds.
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Old 05-28-2016, 10:32 AM   #158
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I'm baffled as to how any half-reasonable person could, honestly. At best he's an amusing cartoon character for wannabe edgy 15 year olds.

At first glance, it's completely understandable to conclude that this man is the devil. But if people take the time to look further into his views than the attention-whoring sound bytes, it becomes obvious that somewhere near 90% of it is completely tongue in cheek.

Plus, it's hard not to root for the other team when you've got people continuously trying to silence him


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Old 05-28-2016, 01:31 PM   #159
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At first glance, it's completely understandable to conclude that this man is the devil. But if people take the time to look further into his views than the attention-whoring sound bytes, it becomes obvious that somewhere near 90% of it is completely tongue in cheek.

Plus, it's hard not to root for the other team when you've got people continuously trying to silence him


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He's a professional asshole. In no way is that admirable, even if 90% of what he says is tongue in cheek as you claim, which probably isn't true.


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Old 05-28-2016, 01:51 PM   #160
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He's a professional asshole. In no way is that admirable

Here's where we disagree. To varying degrees, I see the value in cultural rabble rousers. From the communists of the 60s, to the punks of the 70s, to our current anti-PC crowds -- there's something to be gained from subverting the popular culture of the time, even if people believe that the popular culture is generally good.

With no counter cultural movements, the slope toward an echo chamber can become quite steep.
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Old 05-28-2016, 07:25 PM   #161
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Here's where we disagree. To varying degrees, I see the value in cultural rabble rousers. From the communists of the 60s, to the punks of the 70s, to our current anti-PC crowds -- there's something to be gained from subverting the popular culture of the time, even if people believe that the popular culture is generally good.

With no counter cultural movements, the slope toward an echo chamber can become quite steep.

The difference is that those movements aimed their subversion up, they were attacking the dominant power structure. Milo aims down, at women, black people, trans people, and other people who are victimized by the dominant power structure. He's not subversive, he's reinforcing dominant power structures and calling it subversive.


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Old 05-28-2016, 07:42 PM   #162
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Plus, it's hard not to root for the other team when you've got people continuously trying to silence him
I can't speak to the particular guy you're talking about here, since I've never heard of him until now, but speaking generally, siding with someone simply because they're being dogpiled doesn't seem like a very good strategy to me. Especially not if they're known for saying sexist/racist/homophobic things.

I agree that actively silencing people doesn't help the conversation or stop people from thinking offensive things, or finding other ways to express their thoughts. And I've yet to see this video, but if people got actively confrontational and got up in others' faces and whatnot, then no, that's not good, either. That's not a wise way to get one's point across or be taken seriously.

But at the same time, I also think people need to learn the difference between actually being legit silenced and simply being criticized/yelled at for saying something that rubbed people the wrong way. The former is actual censorship. The latter is not. People can say whatever they want, I won't argue that one bit. But they also need to be prepared for the possibility that somebody may react badly to what they said, and may call them out for it. Especially if what the person said is something that is knowingly ignorant or wrong.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:25 AM   #163
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The difference is that those movements aimed their subversion up, they were attacking the dominant power structure. Milo aims down, at women, black people, trans people, and other people who are victimized by the dominant power structure. He's not subversive, he's reinforcing dominant power structures and calling it subversive.

I think there's a bit of confusion about what the current dominant power structure actually is, though I think this confusion stems from different definitions of what the current "culture" is.

Is Christianity dominant culture? Depends on how you define culture. It's certainly a force to be reckoned with in my parents' generation. In my generation, though? No. Christianity does not exert any meaningful power over the thoughts or opinions of the majority of people in my age group (20-30 year olds). The fruits of the labor aren't quite ready to be harvested yet, but that battle is won.

If you look on college campuses, a different sort of power structure begins to emerge. A power structure that terminates professors for failing to broadcast trigger warnings, creates national news related to what Halloween costumes students *talk* about wearing, and forges new socially conscious "demand" lists every week.

I'm from Louisiana, a location not exactly known for its progressive bent. I attended a Trump protest to get at people, once. I had tons of compatriots. Later, I wore a "Make America Great Again" hat - again, just to get at people. It took quite literally ten minutes before establishments threatened to refuse me service.

In society writ large, no argument from me - there is a degree of white and male privilege still in power. In the upcoming generation? I think there's an argument to be made that a new power structure is developing, and is therefore in need of subversion.

EDIT: also, Milo really doesn't aim at black people. He's on many occasions pointed out that black people are still owed something by America, as they're not yet on equal footing. The fact that it's so often claimed he's racist is just a side effect of the growth of intersectionality.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:35 AM   #164
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But at the same time, I also think people need to learn the difference between actually being legit silenced and simply being criticized/yelled at for saying something that rubbed people the wrong way. The former is actual censorship. The latter is not. People can say whatever they want, I won't argue that one bit. But they also need to be prepared for the possibility that somebody may react badly to what they said, and may call them out for it. Especially if what the person said is something that is knowingly ignorant or wrong.

The protestors stormed the stage, stole a microphone, and blew a whistle into it every time he spoke in order to drown him out, until the event had to be canceled. This is actual silencing, not imagined. I see how it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, because the right *did* cry wolf on this subject for a lot of years.



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Old 06-11-2016, 10:35 AM   #165
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