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Old 06-17-2012, 10:49 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Aygo View Post
Mario Monti, Mario Draghi, Lucas Papademos, Petros Christodoulou, Karel Van Miert, Peter Sutherland, António Borges, Luis de Guindos, Otmar Issing... Just a few names...
All of them are very competent... To serve the interests of those institutions from where they come from, not to serve the european (and national) citizens' interests and concerns.
But, my point stands. Those people you mentioned were not, by and large, the architects of the eurozone project.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:53 PM   #62
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If you want to decrease the debt, you need to raise some taxes. There is no other way.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:06 PM   #63
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If you want to decrease the debt, you need to raise some taxes. There is no other way.
Nonsense.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:07 PM   #64
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If you want to decrease the debt, you need to raise some taxes. There is no other way.
Not necessarily.
Portugal' 2012 is a good that it's not linear as that.

Portugal has always had one of the highest tax burden in Europe (associated with low salaries and purchase power). With the financial agreement and austerity, the Government decided to raise taxes even more.

Guess what: The tax revenues instead of increasing... It's decreasing 10%. Which means that there's a "celiling" for the maximum taxing that a State can hit.
Portugal has already reached that "ceilling". From now on, it'll have the opposite effect. That means that the more you increase the taxes, the more the revenues will decline.

The same goes to the economic adjustement and austerity in the Euro-currency context.
The EU, Merkel, Schauble, the IFM have the illusion that with economic adjustment, after hitting low, the economy will start to grow again.
That's what usually happens when you have an economy that exports, ut mostly, that has sovereign instruments like having a currency that can be printed and/or devalued, or manipulate inflation.
That's not the Euro countries case lik Portugal or Greece. Which means that since these instruments do not exist, this devaluation has to happen in the State's services but, most of all, in the salaries and income of the people, which leads to an even lower purchasing power.
In an economy like Portugal, which lives from the domestic demand (+/- 70%) that's fatal.
It means that recession will continue for a large number of years and that when growth come, it'll be anemic again, maintaining the collapse of the businesses and increasing even more unemployment which turns these high rates from temporary to structural.

It's a spiral and any economist knows it. Only these fanatics haven't achieved this.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:17 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Aygo View Post
Not necessarily.
Portugal' 2012 is a good that it's not linear as that.

Portugal has always had one of the highest tax burden in Europe (associated with low salaries and purchase power). With the financial agreement and austerity, the Government decided to raise taxes even more.

Guess what: The tax revenues instead of increasing... It's decreasing 10%. Which means that there's a "celiling" for the maximum taxing that a State can hit.
Portugal has already reached that "ceilling". From now on, it'll have the opposite effect. That means that the more you increase the taxes, the more the revenues will decline.

The same goes to the economic adjustement and austerity in the Euro-currency context.
The EU, Merkel, Schauble, the IFM have the illusion that with economic adjustment, after hitting low, the economy will start to grow again.
That's what usually happens when you have an economy that exports, ut mostly, that has sovereign instruments like having a currency that can be printed and/or devalued, or manipulate inflation.
That's not the Euro countries case lik Portugal or Greece. Which means that since these instruments do not exist, this devaluation has to happen in the State's services but, most of all, in the salaries and income of the people, which leads to an even lower purchasing power.
In an economy like Portugal, which lives from the domestic demand (+/- 70%) that's fatal.
It means that recession will continue for a large number of years and that when growth come, it'll be anemic again, maintaining the collapse of the businesses and increasing even more unemployment which turns these high rates from temporary to structural.

It's a spiral and any economist knows it. Only these fanatics haven't achieved this.
The European Central Bank has reduced the interest rate to practically zero, has engaged in large scale QE (by another name). Look at the weakening of the euro recently against the debauched currency of the dollar. Look at the appreciation in the gold price.

The central problem is currency union in advance of political union is not workable.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:25 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Aygo View Post
Not necessarily.
Portugal' 2012 is a good that it's not linear as that.

Portugal has always had one of the highest tax burden in Europe (associated with low salaries and purchase power). With the financial agreement and austerity, the Government decided to raise taxes even more.

Guess what: The tax revenues instead of increasing... It's decreasing 10%. Which means that there's a "celiling" for the maximum taxing that a State can hit.
Portugal has already reached that "ceilling". From now on, it'll have the opposite effect. That means that the more you increase the taxes, the more the revenues will decline.
But the United States is nowhere close to that ceiling. In fact, the lowering of taxes (via the Bush tax cuts for the rich) has been a big contributor to the debt. Simply rolling back those tax cuts and returning to Clinton-era tax rates on the wealthy would still be well below that ceiling. This comparison just does not work at all.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:34 PM   #67
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The European Central Bank has reduced the interest rate to practically zero, has engaged in large scale QE (by another name). Look at the weakening of the euro recently against the debauched currency of the dollar. Look at the appreciation in the gold price.

The central problem is currency union in advance of political union is not workable.
It doesn't matter if the ECB has reduced the interests to zero, if the money it releases to the banks doesn't reach the economy and only serves for the bank's recapitalization after the mistakes it has been making in the past. The money is not circulating.

And the Euro may be a bit weaker (against the Dollar) than it was, but still as stronger as the German Mark was, which means that it still is much stronger than the real weight of the economies of the Euro. It's a weight that these small economies cannot support.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:01 AM   #68
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After several Obama warnings, today it was the World Bank to leave another warning that Europe (with the remote control of Merkel and Schauble's Germany) has got to stop with this game and to do it now, because it'll be like a domino.
I personally believe that Merkel and Schauble (and the whole elite from Lehman Bros and Goldman Sachs that are Ministers, Prime-Ministers, Comissioners and "Architects" of the Euro) are psychotically fanatic enough to let it implode with no mercy at all.
Would that be the same World Bank led by Obama-picked president Jim Yong Kim? Author of the GDP growth-skeptic book "Dying for Growth"?

From the book's introduction:
“The studies in this book present evidence that the quest for growth in GDP and corporate profits has in fact worsened the lives of millions of women and men.”

Now, he's not a corrupt or bad man, far from it. But as World Bank president he's every bit an Obamanesque appointment in that he'll do far more harm than good.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:16 AM   #69
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ok....

Economic L/R -6.00

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -5.79

close to my results ?4 years ago taking this here on Interland

maybe moved one 1 1/2 box up on the Libertarian/Authoritarian scale
maybe moved one box rightward on the Left/Right

i'm about 3/5ths+ into the green quadrant

it's pretty close to what i think i am though i might trend a bit more left/libertarian on certain issues depending on things not asked...

I also found it interesting that THIS time a few questions i suddenly got additional POV interpretations that had me pausing between a few agrees and disagrees choices.
Tho NOT when I went to strongly agree/disagree responses.

too late for me to take the other one.
will try tomorrow!
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:39 AM   #70
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Damn you, Khan! (And probably Vlad too, if he'd posted his numbers. My bet: -10, -10.)
Yeah, lock me down for -10, -10.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:44 AM   #71
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Damn you, Khan! (And probably Vlad too, if he'd posted his numbers. My bet: -10, -10.)
sorry. i wish i knew what i answered for the economic side of things that wasn't leftist. i was kinda sleepy when i took this and stuff. and yet i wouldn't think of myself as such an extreme leftist, though especially talking to any american i definitely know i am.

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I know that Vlad and I disagree on a decent amount of things, despite both of us quite emphatically inhabiting the bottom left of the Political Compass. For one thing, I'm a social democrat and he's a communist.
exactly. and i'm a democratic socialist. this quiz definitely simplifies a lot, though i know if it didn't, it would take three hours to take and probably run about 500 questions.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:47 PM   #72
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Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85

So, another for the green box.


The other one says I'm a national democratic socialist, which is total bullshit. Im a Nihilistic indifferent social anarchist, of course. Post-, even. Christ. These descriptions are as ridiculous as people making up music genres in b& c.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:53 PM   #73
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Yeah, lock me down for -10, -10.
So much for the days when I was the most left person here.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #74
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Updated list. Getting a lil' cluttered..
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #75
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-6.0, -5.9

Also the green square, like most here apparently.
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