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Old 10-04-2010, 02:41 AM   #16
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How is that statement valid (I mean this in no disrespect)?

"All planets that are unlike ours, that we're able to relatively closely observe, dont contain life. "

Well at the same time... all planets that are similar to ours, that we're able to relatively closely observe... also do not contain life.

Well I mean... both statements are true. Because we've never found life!

The point I'm making is that we're making so many things 'common sense' if you will... when in reality even the smartest of scientists appear to not think outside the box.

I'm always told of how unfathomable the size of the universe is. And that we cannot comprehend it. I mean... infinite. I get it. Never ending. Always expanding. So if that's the case... how is it not the case that even the very real laws of physics, or the laws of sustaining life as we know it, are not different elsewhere in the universe? I mean... if it's really infinite... who is to say that 1000000000 light years away (excuse my exaggerations) the laws of physics are the same?

We assume too much. Temperature seems ideal for us between 0 and 100 farenheit. But temperature is just a measure based upon our life forms. Who is to say 5000 farenheit to 6000 farenheit is not the ideal temperature for living being x?

Think about stuff like this.

Time as we know it... a year is a long time. What about a dog? Does everything go slower in a dog's life, or do they just live shorter live as a whole? Hell we'd never know considering we can neither communicate with a dog on an intellegent level nor could we ever be a dog. It sounds stupid, but keeping an open mind is important.

Time as we know it could be completely upside down to another species of life. With a never ending universe, there are never ending possibilities. And I think that's what is so incomprehensible.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:48 AM   #17
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Well no, the laws of physics are consistent (or consistently weird) across this universe. That's kind of how scientists can say anything meaningful about it. That can't rule out under what odd conditions some other lifeform might find itself able to flourish. Oxygen might not be a prerequisite, in fact it was toxic to the earliest forms of Earth life, but I suspect that water above freezing would be.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:03 AM   #18
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See that's just the point. I'm fully aware that the laws of physics are consistent. As to well regarded theory.

But excuse me... have we even left our solar system? I think not.

I'm not serious in claiming that the laws of physics may not apply elsewhere in the Universe. I'm just making a point that we wouldn't know because we will never, ever in our lives or our children's children's (500 times over) lives be able to experience what the 'other side' if you will (take that for what its worth), of the universe is like.

Again, I'm not claiming that the laws of physics would be different elsewhere. I'm just pointing out that we are assuming stuff based upon theory. Stuff that is not even proven fact. It is assumed fact.

I would suspect that life as we know it requires water.

I would not suspect that life as we do not know it, which is a very real possibility, requires water.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:02 AM   #19
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forgive me if i'm wrong, but isn't it at least a necessity to have water for life (as we know it, i won't bother thinking about all the what-ifs) to exist at all? the atacama desert springs to mind as there are some parts of the desert with no life whatsoever. again, like i said sure there may be some aliens on planet x that live off mercury and plutonium instead, but we don't know for sure so i personally am not going to bother stressing over that stuff.

but anyway, water is a bit of a necessity. while the universe is seemingly infinite, sure, if it's too ridiculously cold or hot or the atmosphere isn't right then there can't be any water. no water, no life.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:34 AM   #20
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Scientists have been sending out radio signals since the eary 1950s.
Everybody knows the rest of the galaxy has been using satellite radio for centuries, they haven't touched the AM or FM dial since B.C.

Is this really the basis for your belief? Or is yours a religious one?
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
How is that statement valid (I mean this in no disrespect)?

"All planets that are unlike ours, that we're able to relatively closely observe, dont contain life. "

Well at the same time... all planets that are similar to ours, that we're able to relatively closely observe... also do not contain life.
Well that's just the thing. What planets have we found that are similar to ours? Is this not the closest we've found yet? It's not a very common situation and we havent really had the opportunity.
I get what you're saying, but it makes more sense to think that, under similar conditions, similar chemical processes may have taken place.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:31 PM   #22
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Certainly it makes sense to look their first. We should look elsewhere and think big, though.

But going back to my original post, I'm just saying that I find it amusing that everything that we are looking for, the standard, is us, right down to the oxygen that we breath. They seem to want to turn their head if our conditions are not met.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:17 PM   #23
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Probably because it's not worth spending all the time and money finding if it's not something that our human race can use and eventually exploit. Not saying that's how I feel, but it is a common criticism of space exploration....for all the money, resources, and even the lives lost, what really have we achieved?
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:39 PM   #24
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i am NOT living on a planet where the max temperature is minus 12.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:46 PM   #25
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....for all the money, resources, and even the lives lost, what really have we achieved?
knowledge.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:55 PM   #26
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Probably because it's not worth spending all the time and money finding if it's not something that our human race can use and eventually exploit. Not saying that's how I feel, but it is a common criticism of space exploration....for all the money, resources, and even the lives lost, what really have we achieved?
Unless our neighbors are much closer than we originally thought, I doubt we will ever exploit anybody. Considering matter cannot travel the speed of light, you'd literally have to develop technology that travels almost exactly the speed of light. In which case, it's a 40 year round trip for us to exploit them.

And yes, achieving knowledge. It is the human desire to know more.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:36 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
Probably because it's not worth spending all the time and money finding if it's not something that our human race can use and eventually exploit. Not saying that's how I feel, but it is a common criticism of space exploration....for all the money, resources, and even the lives lost, what really have we achieved?
Know anyone who has had Lasik eye surgery? That's a direct result of our space program.

GPS? Satellite communications? Material science research?

Okay, it's not the cure for cancer (yet), but the beneficial spill-over from space and military tech spending is almost immeasurable at this point.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:38 AM   #28
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Again, I said that is not how *I* feel about it, but I have heard the space programs criticized MANY times for the amount of money and resources it has exploited trying to get to this, trying to find that to no avail. But, with all the crap going on right in front of us, I think at this point I'd trade in my local Lasik surgeon and GPS unit for, say, basic healthcare and halfway decent primary education for all...
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:57 AM   #29
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Again, I said that is not how *I* feel about it, but I have heard the space programs criticized MANY times for the amount of money and resources it has exploited trying to get to this, trying to find that to no avail. But, with all the crap going on right in front of us, I think at this point I'd trade in my local Lasik surgeon and GPS unit for, say, basic healthcare and halfway decent primary education for all...
Didn't mean for it to come off as an attack.

And yes, basic healthcare versus Reagan's Star Wars program that got us Lasik--absolutely.

There are so many thing our government wastes money on, but any money spent on research is okay in my book. It generally is spent in the U.S. It helps universities' research programs and keeps us ahead of the rest of the world economically.

Anyway, Obama is NOT a space exploration advocate, so there will probably only be minimal spending on it in his tenure.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:56 PM   #30
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Scientists have been sending out radio signals since the eary 1950s.
A whole lot more than scientists have been sending out radio waves since the 1950's. That's not the point, a radio wave sent out, in the manner in which we Earthlings would do, would dissipate greatly in intensity by the time it reaches the nearest star*.

Yes, that's nearest star. Not even out of our galaxy.

It would take an incredibly strong radio wave to make it to the nearest star and be detected. We could do it but would probably never do such a thing. The point is, they'd need to be listening really closely...and the greater distance traveled, the weaker the signal/wave as it dissipates.

Which is precisely why SETI listens, rather than broadcasts.

You also have to figure the UNFATHOMABLE distances these waves would have to travel to reach one of these Earth-like planets.

I tend to find that skeptics on this issue haven't thought much about the Cosmos. Because we haven't found anything in the year 2010 in our little (less than a) grain of sand in this corner of the Universe, means essentially nothing.

We can't put a man on Mars, which is right next door and you'd wonder how an alien lifeform...anywhere else in the Universe can't contact us? Our receive one of our teeny radio waves and then have to SEND IT BACK?

ETA*
Need to clarify, the radio waves DO make it to the nearest star, it's just...beyond a crapshoot that they would be able to detect something that small. They would have to be listening and looking in the exact right place unless it were something much bigger.
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