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Old 03-08-2011, 09:38 PM   #31
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Basstrap was referring to mass killings which were reputedly directly ordered by God.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:16 PM   #32
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Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?
I think that blaming it on demonic powers is ludicrous. I feel 100% certain my grandparents and family were at no point possessed by demons.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:21 PM   #33
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Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?
Quote:
I am bewildered at the ignorance of Pentecostals today concerning this issue of speaking in tongues.
Nice source

Listen, I don't believe in "speaking in tongues"(I'm not a literalist) but the truth is there is Biblical backing to it, and I find it interesting that someone like yourself that takes the Bible literally doesn't believe in it. It seems contradictary.

As you may not know David J Stewart is also very very questionable(http://davidjstewartexposed.blogspot.com/), so you're gonna have to find a better source. The one verse that contradicts many of his points is:

And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

—Acts 19:6
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:35 PM   #34
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I am, of course, deeply skeptical of tongues. I think it best explained (as previously mentioned) by glossolalia and, in rare cases, xenolalia.

I myself was never "filled with the spirit", though I did try. I think I always held back; even in a frenzied emotional state I knew that in order to go to the next level I would have to just open my mouth and start speaking...well...gibberish. I think it is something we learned by example and tradition. Everyone pretty much spoke it the same way, using a rapid succession of monosyllables.
It would take a lot more confidence than I ever had, to let go and start speaking in that tradition. I probably wouldn't get it right, and everyone would know I was faking.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:04 PM   #35
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Was it looked down on to not be able to do it?
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:04 PM   #36
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Here we go:

Speaking in Tongues EXPOSED!


What's your question?
That certainly doesn't appear to be an objective, unbiased source.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:46 PM   #37
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I think when we are killing human beings, we can call it a war.


well, no, you can't, because war has a specific definition.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:05 AM   #38
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I am not a denomination.
Which denominations, in your view, would not fall under "false teachings?"
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:36 AM   #39
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Was it looked down on to not be able to do it?
naw, I never got any heat for that. Usually just encouragement to keep trying, and if that failed I'd have to just accept that I did not have that particular gift of the spirit.
It isn't a "do it or die" doctrine; one didn't go to hell for not being filled. It just meant you were a little less spiritually wise.

At least in official dogma people in all other Christian denominations could go to heaven. But, there was certainly a condescending attitude of "we're spiritually better than them."
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:47 AM   #40
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I use to have a neighbor who was Pentecostal in belief. He would harrass me on a daily basis for being Catholic. He would wait outside when I was leaving for work. So he could tell me that I worshiped idols, was a pagen and I would be going straight to hell. It may sound funny, but it wasn't. He would even leave notes on my front porch that Catholics were evil and satanic. I had to put up with his bullshit for years. Thankfully, he has since moved.

I really can relate to the hatefullness that Muslims endure for their religious freedom. I have experienced it too.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:52 AM   #41
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I was raised Catholic and now consider myself more agnostic, but I had no idea that Catholicism was so reviled by other Christian denominations. No idea. This comes as a surprise to me.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:09 AM   #42
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I have friends and family members who are traditional Protestants. Methodist, Lutheran, etc. and they have no problems what so ever with Catholics or any other faith. I think it was just what my ex neighbor was taught in the Pentecostal church.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:57 PM   #43
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I have friends and family members who are traditional Protestants. Methodist, Lutheran, etc. and they have no problems what so ever with Catholics or any other faith. I think it was just what my ex neighbor was taught in the Pentecostal church.
Yeah, that's too bad what you experienced
It's why I said that official dogma doesn't condemn Catholics. In practice, however, there are many people who consider Catholics to be pagans and idolaters.
In protestant denominations in general you get more of this kind of thing; this may be because they have no central authority to determine dogma. You generally don't find fringe churches like the Westboro Baptists in Catholicism. Do you?

Perhaps there is a political analogy to be drawn here. In more centralized forms of government you may find more coherency in values and social norms, whereas in a democracy where there is greater decentralization the product is often more chaotic and messy. Nobody likes Fred Phelps, but in a democracy - in a republic, to be more specific - there is a place for him.
similarly, in protestantism, you might be surprised NOT to find the occasional asshole preacher.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:54 PM   #44
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Well, some individuals just happen to be bullies, too. I think it's fair to say that IF you're someone with a bit of a sadistic streak, then proselytizing could become one outlet for releasing that while telling yourself what you're doing is completely loving and compassionate, because within that situation it's easily possible to perceive yourself as coming from a standpoint of special authority, and that's exactly what a person with sadistic tendencies likes. But beyond that, in some places--like much of the South for example, but it's not limited to there--religious identity just is more salient a factor in everyone's social identity than elsewhere, and that can lead to rampant denominational stereotyping that pretty much everyone participates in. I probably subscribed to some degree to these local stereotypes myself as a kid...for example, the Baptists are the most poorly educated but also the most pious (sample popular joke: "What do you call a Baptist who can read?" "A Methodist"); the Methodists are better-educated, but probably the least pious (insert story about so-and-so who got plastered at her own husband's funeral reception and those people thought it was funny); the Catholics are the best-educated but have a huge chip on their shoulder towards everyone else (plus, y'know, some of their rituals are weeeiiirrrdd), etc. etc. Anti-Muslim (and anti-Jewish) sentiments are really a bit different, in that there's usually a fairly obvious racial/xenophobic undertone to them, even when they're primarily packaged in religious language. At any rate, the upshot of this type of environment is that "mere" doctrinal differences can morph into something else, which is probably further aggravated by the preoccupation with salvation and the belief (by many) that you'll go to hell if you get the doctrine at all wrong. Whereas if, by contrast, BoMac was never aware of such tensions growing up Catholic, my guess is that's because they truly weren't there.
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In protestant denominations in general you get more of this kind of thing; this may be because they have no central authority to determine dogma. You generally don't find fringe churches like the Westboro Baptists in Catholicism. Do you?
I'm not sure it's fair to make protestantism in general answer for the WBC--they're really soooooo out there; there's probably some televangelist who would make a better example. There are self-identified "charismatic Catholics," I've encountered a couple of them, who are often linked with Opus Dei and, in fact, practice speaking in tongues, "spiritual healing" and so on. But I think, in general, you're right that the highly centralized nature of the Catholic Church keeps "fringe" activity at a minimum (though perhaps at the cost of enabling more pervasive institutional corruption in other ways).
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:43 PM   #45
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I was raised Catholic and now consider myself more agnostic, but I had no idea that Catholicism was so reviled by other Christian denominations. No idea. This comes as a surprise to me.
This extreme level I only know from the States. Here in Germany, many people are critical of the Vatican and some of our Cardinals, especially if they are not Catholic, but else there is not much animosity.
Maybe that's because here there's only two Christian denominations present, more or less. You are either Lutheran or Catholic. Everything else is almost non-existent.
That's the number for religious affiliation for the main religions, according to Wikipedia:
1. Agnostic 34.60%
2. Roman-Catholic 30.50%
3. Lutheran 29.50 %
4. Muslim 4.5%
9. Buddhist 0.30%
10. Jews 0.24%
11. Russian-Orthodox 0.22%

And both Lutherans and Catholics are usually greatly concentrated regionally, for historical reasons. Where I grew up, e.g. in one class of 30 students there were usually one or two Catholics. In another area, the figures will be reversed.
I guess we just have less religions competing with each other, and those who are religious usually are way more relaxed. I would argue that the figure for Agnostics is much closer to 50%. Many of those are simply too lazy to drop out of church, or they are leaving in an area where it's still common to be in a church, like Bavaria. The figures are based on statistics from 2009, so the number of Catholics should be lower.
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