Paul McGuinness will be sad

[mama cass]

A win for civil liberties in France!

i think this surveillance thing is ludicrous and disgusting really! if the film and music industries are so worried about it they should tighten up their own security their end and make their products unstealable - like security tags on real items in real shops - not get spies to follow everyone around the "streets"! big brother!

from The Guardian:

French politicians have unexpectedly rejected a bill that would have cut off the internet connections of anyone found to be repeatedly downloading music or videos without paying for them. The legislation would also have led to the creation of the world's first state surveillance system on web pirates.

The fiercely contested bill was rejected today in a sparsely attended vote in the National Assembly.

The bill had been championed by the president, Nicolas Sarkozy, whose wife, the singer Carla Bruni, has long advocated a crackdown on piracy. On Monday, film director Steven Soderbergh urged US authorities to draw inspiration from the French bill in their fight against piracy.

Under the proposed legislation, new powers would have been granted to music and film companies to enable them to monitor internet users and report illegal downloads to a new copyright protection agency.

Anyone found to have broken the law would have been traced via their IP (internet protocol) address and handed up to three warnings before their connection was severed for up to a year. Offenders would have had to keep paying for their internet connection despite it having been cut off.

Despite the approval of the French recording industry and prominent musicians, including Johnny Hallyday, some attacked the measure.

Civil liberties campaigners and members of the Socialist party said the new surveillance powers were tantamount to "the criminalisation of an entire generation".

Others had said it could end up punishing the wrong people, for instance parents whose children download in secret or employers whose staff use computers at work to break the law.

Breaking ranks from many of their artistic colleagues, a group of French directors and actors including Catherine Deneuve issued an open letter of protest this week.

"The law comes in response to legitimate concerns which we all share – concerns that we will see our work devalued and degraded," they wrote. "However this law … is merely imposing a punitive system whose constitutionality is dubious and practicality unclear."

 

[A stor]

Plus, how much would all of this cost?

 

[BVS]

if the film and music industries are so worried about it they should tighten up their own security their end and make their products unstealable - like security tags on real items in real shops -

This makes no sense.

 

[thehomecomingsort]

thanks for this mama cass. nice find.

 

[Galeongirl]

I'm glad to hear this.

And agreed with BVS, that quote is really weird and nonsentical.

 

[LemonMelon]

For a second there, I thought they were outlawing the sale of quarter-pounders in Ireland. More specific thread titles, plz.

 

[Purplereign]

^

 

[mama cass]

This makes no sense.

I'm glad to hear this.

And agreed with BVS, that quote is really weird and nonsentical.

sorry... yeah that was just some train-of-thought off-the-top-of-my-head gibberish that was

what i meant was, rather than monitoring everyone's internet use, which i think is a breach of civil liberties, can't they just make their own products more secure? like an electronic antitheft device or something (i'm not a technical person, just thinking out loud)

like in the real world, how they just put security tags on items in shops instead of getting MI5 to spy on EVERYONE, kind of thing?

is that any clearer?

jeesus do i really have to explain myself

 

[mama cass]

thanks for this mama cass. nice find.

fanks!

 

[mama cass]

This makes no sense.

it still makes perfect sense to me! ha ha

 

[mama cass]

I'm glad to hear this.

And agreed with BVS, that quote is really weird and nonsentical.

nonsensical

 

[mama cass]

For a second there, I thought they were outlawing the sale of quarter-pounders in Ireland. More specific thread titles, plz.

lol!

 

[Purplereign]

what i meant was, rather than monitoring everyone's internet use, which i think is a breach of civil liberties, can't they just make their own products more secure? like an electronic antitheft device or something (i'm not a technical person, just thinking out loud)

like in the real world, how they just put security tags on items in shops instead of getting MI5 to spy on EVERYONE, kind of thing?

. . . they need to get hold of some 17 year computer hacker to create a hack proof system and awwaaaay they go

 

[mama cass]

. . . they need to get hold of some 17 year computer hacker to create a hack proof system and awwaaaay they go

yeah that's what i mean! that kind of thing!

 

[Purplereign]

^

think they really do need to do something about the whole illegal download thing though . . . established / older artists have already made their dosh from their music so I guess the impact won't be felt quite as harshly for them (they may lose a million dollars in royalities but when they have a few squillion in the bank that's small change) . . . but for up and coming artists it really does present a dilemma especially as the touring scene for up and comers seems to be dying out at a rate of knots as well . . . hope a solution is found that protects the artists to a degree and our privacy as well

 

[VintagePunk]

sorry... yeah that was just some train-of-thought off-the-top-of-my-head gibberish that was

what i meant was, rather than monitoring everyone's internet use, which i think is a breach of civil liberties, can't they just make their own products more secure? like an electronic antitheft device or something (i'm not a technical person, just thinking out loud)

like in the real world, how they just put security tags on items in shops instead of getting MI5 to spy on EVERYONE, kind of thing?

is that any clearer?

jeesus do i really have to explain myself

That's been tried in the past, but then you have the issue of people wanting to rip the cds to their computers so that they can listen on their computers or iPods, which, if they've bought the music, they ought to be able to listen to it on any device of their choice.

 

[Purplereign]

^ true, but couldn't it be embedded with a licence type thing such as other software? so you're buying the rights to have it playable on say 3 devices?? cd player, ipod, computer? there has to be a way to make it work for everyone

 

[Vincent Vega]

^ true, but couldn't it be embedded with a licence type thing such as other software? so you're buying the rights to have it playable on say 3 devices?? cd player, ipod, computer? there has to be a way to make it work for everyone

That's pretty much what DRM did and it's not really an alternative. If you change your computer, have to format your HDD and store your songs elsewhere, or in other instances you can't just do that because many of the songs already have been copied three times.
There is also the sense that if you pay for a song to own it, you want to be able to do with it what you wish, not being bound by such limitations.

 

[mama cass]

there must be a solution other than surveillance... surely the computer wizards are clever enough to think of something?

 

[Galeongirl]

. . . they need to get hold of some 17 year computer hacker to create a hack proof system and awwaaaay they go

Sadly enough, that's quite hard to achieve. THere were cds that had, I think it was called DRM security. BIG problem. The cds were secured so you couldn't copy them, BUT you could also not put them on your computer! So with all the iPods and other Mp3 players around these days, you'd have to go back to your trusty old discman instead! Pretty damn shitty!
I don't see a perfect solution on the horizon soon, at least the legal downloading thing by itunes and other shops is going decent. That was quite a good idea. If they're going to offer those in high quality(wav or flaq) I can see the sales rising even more.

And for the record: There's no such thing as illegal music downloading. DOWNloading is perfectly legal. UPloading music online is illegal, unless it's your own composition.

 

[Popmartijn]

And for the record: There's no such thing as illegal music downloading. DOWNloading is perfectly legal. UPloading music online is illegal, unless it's your own composition.

This holds true only for certain countries. In some countries it's illegal to download copyrighted stuff without obtaining the proper license.
This is one thing the media often gets wrong. Most of these proposals call for measurements against those who illegally upload stuff. Instead, the media usually reports about these things against those who download stuff. Big difference.

 

[BVS]

I think we should just go back to these:

 

[Purplereign]

That's pretty much what DRM did and it's not really an alternative. If you change your computer, have to format your HDD and store your songs elsewhere, or in other instances you can't just do that because many of the songs already have been copied three times.
There is also the sense that if you pay for a song to own it, you want to be able to do with it what you wish, not being bound by such limitations.

back to the drawing board then had no idea it had already been trialled . . . and yeah, I agree that limitations to ownership would be a pain in the . . . maybe files can be embedded with a download only device ie . . . actually I haven't a clue but I really think there has to be a way around it . . . off to hunt down my techie friends and ask

Sadly enough, that's quite hard to achieve. THere were cds that had, I think it was called DRM security. BIG problem. The cds were secured so you couldn't copy them, BUT you could also not put them on your computer! So with all the iPods and other Mp3 players around these days, you'd have to go back to your trusty old discman instead! Pretty damn shitty!
I don't see a perfect solution on the horizon soon, at least the legal downloading thing by itunes and other shops is going decent. That was quite a good idea. If they're going to offer those in high quality(wav or flaq) I can see the sales rising even more.

And for the record: There's no such thing as illegal music downloading. DOWNloading is perfectly legal. UPloading music online is illegal, unless it's your own composition.

discmans . . . I kid, would seem kind of crazy to create something that can't actually be played on anything

as for the upload/download comment . . .I learnt something new

This holds true only for certain countries. In some countries it's illegal to download copyrighted stuff without obtaining the proper license.
This is one thing the media often gets wrong. Most of these proposals call for measurements against those who illegally upload stuff. Instead, the media usually reports about these things against those who download stuff. Big difference.

gotta love the media and their hand in spreading inaccuracies

 

[Vincent Vega]

Concerning the upload/download issue you need to check your country's laws on that issue. In Germany, to my knowledge it is illegal even to download copyrighted stuff as, quite logically I would think, it's a breach of copyright.
And since the common source for this kind of files is p2p networks you will almost always upload stuff as well, except of course if you limit your upload capacity to 0. But that, on the other hand, would make the whole system of p2p obsolete.

 

[A stor]

sorry... yeah that was just some train-of-thought off-the-top-of-my-head gibberish that was

what i meant was, rather than monitoring everyone's internet use, which i think is a breach of civil liberties, can't they just make their own products more secure? like an electronic antitheft device or something (i'm not a technical person, just thinking out loud)

like in the real world, how they just put security tags on items in shops instead of getting MI5 to spy on EVERYONE, kind of thing?

is that any clearer?

jeesus do i really have to explain myself

Great point! Loved the MI5, reference.

 

[mama cass]

well, they voted on this again in France, and the law was passed last week... unbelievable...

 

[BVS]

Theft is theft

I don't understand why some people think the theft of music or movies is any different? It baffles me, it seems like we live in an entitled generation, where they feel like they just deserve free music.

We have surveillance cameras to try and prevent and catch theft, why not on the internet?

 

[HyperU2]

If they're so worried about royalties why are used CD and DVD sales ok?

 

[BVS]

If they're so worried about royalties why are used CD and DVD sales ok?

Well it was at least bought already once...

And if I remember right Garth Brooks and a few others tried this law suit once...

 

[mama cass]

Theft is theft

I don't understand why some people think the theft of music or movies is any different? It baffles me, it seems like we live in an entitled generation, where they feel like they just deserve free music.

We have surveillance cameras to try and prevent and catch theft, why not on the internet?

it's more about blanket surveillance, control, and our civil liberties being eroded