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Old 05-04-2011, 08:47 AM   #451
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Interesting and well written....but totally impractical.

I think Pac-Mule explained it best in a previous post - the security costs of a trial would be astronomical, not to mention that no normal lawyer would take the case to defend him. Also, if a defendant has the right to face his accuser then this wouldn't be the case here because his accusers are all dead by his hand.

Besides, you would have to find a very remote corner of the United States to even begin to find a jury and venue that would be impartial. Maybe somewhere in the Rocky mountains there are 12 people who haven't heard of him or what he's done - but I doubt it.

As far as I'm concerned he HAD his trial. Obama was the judge, the people of NYC were the prosecutors, Bin Laden's lawyers were Hezbollah, The Taliban, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, he gave testimony in the form of all the tapes he released over the years, the evidence against him was the smoldering remains of the WTC, the pentagon and United flight 93, as well as the gaping hole in the USS Cole and the wreckage of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (among others). The American people were the jury who handed out the sentence of death (deservedly) and the SEALS were the executioners....end of story.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:57 AM   #452
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obama desperately wanted to put KSM on trial, and do it in manhattan. he realized eventually that the security costs alone would make such a thing incredibly impractical. and that's for the #2 guy... for bin laden? forget it...

this man did not plan a criminal act. he planned an act of war. he got what he deserved.

now let's start backing most of our troops out and focus our efforts in the war on terror on strategic strikes, special ops and drone strikes.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:22 AM   #453
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Who are you?
Your worst nightmare

No seriously I'm Rush Limbaugh
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:22 AM   #454
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obama desperately wanted to put KSM on trial, and do it in manhattan. he realized eventually that the security costs alone would make such a thing incredibly impractical. and that's for the #2 guy... for bin laden? forget it...

this man did not plan a criminal act. he planned an act of war. he got what he deserved.

now let's start backing most of our troops out and focus our efforts in the war on terror on strategic strikes, special ops and drone strikes.
THIS
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:33 AM   #455
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I don't think he was ever coming out of there alive.

The story is muddled - or evolving - from others, possibly because the question of evidence is changing, or the evidence itself is changing, thus they're forced to start reigning it into the truth, but look at what Obama has actually said. He must have it right from the get go, he can't get caught out later. So...

During the initial TV speech:
"After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden."

And at the dinner the following night:
"an operation that resulted in the capture and death of Osama bin Laden."

There was a firefight, then they caught bin Laden, then they killed him.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:28 AM   #456
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The last two paragraphs of this article are so absurd, I can't believe a professional writer actually wrote it. The suggestion that Bin Laden might actually be remorseful when confronted my the families affected by 9/11 or after serving significant jail time is a tough sell to say the least.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:02 PM   #457
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obama desperately wanted to put KSM on trial, and do it in manhattan. he realized eventually that the security costs alone would make such a thing incredibly impractical. and that's for the #2 guy... for bin laden? forget it...

this man did not plan a criminal act. he planned an act of war. he got what he deserved.

now let's start backing most of our troops out and focus our efforts in the war on terror on strategic strikes, special ops and drone strikes.


no one breathed a sigh of relief at eichmann's trial, just at his hanging.

cut the middle man, the red tape, and take him out in one fell swoop. i'd be very surprised if they ever truly considered taking him alive. they already had several confessions he provided on his own, so what was the point?
plus we would have gotten a bunch of these "release him or we will bomb a major US city" threats or actual suicide bombings in the name of his release.

good fucking riddance
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:26 PM   #458
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no one breathed a sigh of relief at eichmann's trial, just at his hanging.

cut the middle man, the red tape, and take him out in one fell swoop. i'd be very surprised if they ever truly considered taking him alive. they already had several confessions he provided on his own, so what was the point?
plus we would have gotten a bunch of these "release him or we will bomb a major US city" threats or actual suicide bombings in the name of his release.

good fucking riddance
Winner!
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:28 PM   #459
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no normal lawyer would take the case to defend him. Also, if a defendant has the right to face his accuser then this wouldn't be the case here because his accusers are all dead by his hand.
You're wrong on both those accounts.

There certainly would be "normal" lawyers who would defend him. It is a basic tenet of our legal system.

Secondly, it is absolutely not a requirement that the defendant has the "right" to face his accuser in the sense that you are thinking of - if it were so, then no murderer would be able to have a trial. Obviously illogical. As this is a criminal matter, the accuser is the state and not the victim.

Edited to add: I am not in favour of him having had a trial, but let's at least put forth reasonable arguments for why that would not be the best idea. Costs/security is one, for example.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:56 PM   #460
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there's always a lawyer who will take the case.

i'm glad glock, esquire took this particular case.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:02 PM   #461
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  • Costs/Security.
  • The longer it drags out (and it would be years and years - no quickie like the shonky Saddam trial under the shonky Iraqi 'justice' system) the more likely anything and everything to do with it becomes messy, ugly, and of course - this being the US - highly politically charged.
  • He remains a living symbol. Possibly/probably even a stronger one than before, or at least far stronger than he has been for years. I would think much, much, much stronger. And perhaps more openly.
  • He becomes a cause. Bomb this, hijack that, kidnap them - "Release bin Laden."

It's all of that, and kind of entering an unknown in regards to all of that. It's the question of whether this story should drag on for years and years, or whether it should just be ended right now.

I think everyone would like to (a) see the image of him captive, shackled, in one of those jumpsuits, showing signs of having been a bit roughed up, with a bunch of US soldiers standing around him smirking or something, (b) see the image of him in court getting a dressing down for the fucking ages, (c) think of him rotting in a prison, and (d) know that 'good' justice was done in a 'right' way. But... in between all of those brief snapshot moments, it almost certainly would be... very bad. I'd bet within a year, the opinion over-riding all of the above wishes would be Should have just shot him when we had the chance.

Harsh and crass, perhaps 'wrong', but think about it. I wouldn't support that with anyone else, but once every sixty or seventy years, someone comes along, and it's just too charged.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:08 PM   #462
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Well, Obama has decided not to release the photos. Probably for the best. But the conspiracy nuts are going to jump on this.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:16 PM   #463
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I think that is for the best. But I still think they should let a hundred or so journalists and ambassador-types, from all over the world, of all stripes and opinions and positions, see as much of the evidence as they can. Not just a few trusted chummy guys from the US media, but a broad cross section, extended internationally. That should take the conspiracy nut level down from about 20% to about 5%. And there's nothing - including general release of photos - that you can do about that 5%. But you know, if Rush Limbaugh gets on the air tomorrow saying there's something fishy about the lack of evidence, get him on a plane tomorrow and show the fat fuck.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:23 PM   #464
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if the us thinks your trial would cost too much

better watch out the executioner's looming
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:51 PM   #465
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Mostly, I just think the idea that there was a realistic option of taking him alive in that situation is off-base to begin with. There was a rocket-propelled grenade launched, there was a firefight in the dark, for all they knew there could've been powerful explosives present as well, there was imminent danger throughout of Pakistani police or military showing up, etc. etc. Like Earnie said earlier, if they're going to come out in their underwear with their hands over their heads waving a white flag, okay, otherwise it makes no sense to treat it as anything other than a high-risk combat operation.
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