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Old 05-03-2011, 04:11 PM   #406
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Get off the self righteous soap box and think about the "non-violent" way 3,000 INNOCENT Americans were slaughtered on that day (I knew 3 of them, 2 of them made it out of the twin towers and the one that did not had his family disintergrate in front of my eyes). And you equate this to the killing of the man who not only took responsibility for these actions but revelled in it's horrific reprecussions.

I see that you have have personal connections and I do not which makes all the difference in the world. When I was quoting MLK I was speaking from a distance. I was speaking 'in theory' that two wrongs don't make a right not from a personal situation of loss.
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:20 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Oh come on you can't be serious.

So far all we've seen are right leaning sights reporting on these vague off the record accounts(and it's all essentially the same report just shared on several sights). The only quote we've seen doesn't even actually say that he was unarmed. And it admits “This is hours old and the full facts are still being ascertained as those involved are debriefed.”
at last, a name... is that good enough for you yet BVS?

Quote:
Carney is meanwhile coming under pressure from reporters at the briefing. They want to know why Bin Laden was not taken alive if he was, as they have now been told, unarmed.

"He resisted. The US personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism and he was killed in an operation because of the resistance that they met," added Carney.

7.05pm: Bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot by US special forces, Jay Carney, a White House spokesman, has told a press briefing.

"Resistance does not require a firearm," said Carney.
Osama bin Laden's death: aftermath and reaction live | News | guardian.co.uk

fwiw, The Guardian isn't exactly a "right leaning sight [sic]"
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:28 PM   #408
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Interesting gaurdian article

What if Bin Laden had stood trial? | Robert Lambert | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:29 PM   #409
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I don't really care if bin Laden was taken alive or not. The SEALs are the best in the world at what they do. I am sure they acted in most rational way possible during the operation.

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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Don't forget that it was the "horrors" of the Bush administration that made this raid even possible......via gitmo detainees and intel gathered over the past 10 years - of which GWB was president for 7.

It's true that Obama took a "well-informed" gutsy decision - but then so did GWB when he went into Iraq and Afghanistan. It only turned out later that the information he was given was false but, at the time, he acted in good faith on the information he had and he acted to protect American lives at home. The same thing could have happened here. The intel could have been false and the SEALS could have been led into a trap, G-d forbid, THEN he would have been as vilified as GWB was.
The jury is still out on whether the intelligence leading to the location of bin Laden was gleamed during the CIA's (now over) "enhanced interrogation" (torture) sessions at Guantanamo Bay. Of course the Right is spinning this as justification for Bush administration-authorized torture.

The (Democratic) chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee says that the intel was obtained after the Bush-era interrogations were halted.

I'm not sure if you support torture or think it leads to reliable information (reports have shown it doesn't), but I certainly do not support it. This is an interesting PR beachball being batted around at the moment between propagandists like Matt Drudge and Talking Points Memo.
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:30 PM   #410
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� Inside Sources: Bin Laden’s Corpse Has Been On Ice For Nearly a Decade Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:51 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mama cass View Post
at last, a name... is that good enough for you yet BVS?



Osama bin Laden's death: aftermath and reaction live | News | guardian.co.uk

fwiw, The Guardian isn't exactly a "right leaning sight [sic]"
Thank you, I wasn't trying to start anything I'm just very skeptical of such reporting.

Whether or not he was personally armed doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. The likelihood of taking him alive without losing one of their own would be very slim. That's just how these missions work. I respect the call of using a SEAL team rather than a bomb.
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:56 PM   #412
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While it would've been great to get him alive, he probably would've offed himself before allowing that to happen. Also, why risk the lives of the seals to protect his. I read a quote from, I think it was an ex navy seal who said "That's just how these missions work". I'm sure he must have a lot of covert ops experience to be able to make that kind of statement
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:10 PM   #413
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Supposedly some of his own people had orders to kill him before he could be taken or killed by US forces. Obviously that didn't work out, if true.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:21 PM   #414
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I don't have net at home currently, and I was watching (don't have cable either)"air" TV on a syndicated channel that did not break into what was running-- so i didn't find out until after 1AM (TV off) when I turned on the radio which was too late to call anybody.

And when I was here @ Interland yesterday (where I am on the Net - obviously) yesterday had too much else to do, and the 2 people on at that point in another thread here were not talking about it so....
this multi-quote is my first interaction- delayed as it.
I skipped on reading pgs ?21 - 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
And speaking of obnoxious, I stayed watching CNN for a little while longer and they were attempting to interview the college kids at Ground Zero causing a ruckus. Not a single one could put together a coherent thought, calling it an out-of-body experience.
"I was in 4th grade when 9/11 happened..." yeah, well, then you don't remember jackshit. Sit down.
I was 7 1/2 when they elected JFK and I remember one set of aunts & uncles (out of 4 sets) who were not voting for him. I was puzzled by this.

I remember The CUban Missile Crisis when I was ? 8 1/2 and because I was scientifically precocious I knew if it went nuclear we wer pretty much all dead.

and of course I remember JFK's assassination at 10 yrs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post


but there is a moment when it becomes cheering for the sake of cheering. or faux patriotism. and nothing is more obnoxious than that. there's a big difference between this:

and this:
yup.
and *thanks* for the firemen photo. So god damn poignant!

If I had been outside in like midtown Manhattan I maybe would have jumped up once or twice yelled "woah" ... but the situation is so complex in certain ways I would have sobered down quickly because of that and remembering all who died, were injured physically /or emotionally etc.

Instead I just jabbed my elbow down, fist closed and went "yeah".

I did this several times on Mon as I listened to stuff, and I went down to Ground Zero after I left here.

I haven't been there in like 5? weeks - I don't visit the WFC Plaza/Esplanade/parks north & south of that area almost at all in the winter time except maybe xmas week, or a special art show in the Palm Garden ( the whole area by the water is connected up) or when we have a very warm day in early spring like we did.

Not sure but it seems that they started to clad the new 1 WTC in the glass windows. I'm sure I would have remembered that if I'd seen it
this last time in late March, orearly April.

I wanted to go up by stairs at WFC to see the Memorial is coming along-- but it meant more walking, and it was getting to twilight so later this week or next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beegee View Post
Fourth graders are usually nine or ten years old. Kids that age would easily remember the events of that day. Mine do. My daughter was only seven at the time and she remembers everything that happened that day, down to some of the smallest details. She's seventeen now. She was the first person I texted with the news.
wow.....

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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Here we go..so predictable. Bush better get credit, damn it.
I heard the clips yesterday of Prs W Bush saying> " I don't really spend much time on Osama anymore" in a press conference or, interview back in 02 or 03? I remember that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post


So my brother posted this on his own Facebook page. And then my mom showed up in the comments to out herself as a birther.



There was a lot of sad "Oh, mom" comments following from me and my brother.

We disagree on a great many things, but usually she has a lot more frigging sense than that.

I'm so disappointed in her.
: ( Oh dear, cori. {{hugs}}

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
.... It can go something like this. He was blown to bits at Tora Bora in early 2002. Not enough was left to identify him. But with the remains and DNA Bush/ Cheney knew they had him. (You may recall this was the original claim) The problem was with OBL dead there would be pressure to call it over. Cheney/Bush did not want to get out of Afghanistan. They had designs on a pipeline among other things. Cheney saw lots of opportunity for billions in Halliburton contracts. But, more importantly, Cheney had big plans for Iraq and needed OBL in the picture to gin up support for that huge sacrifice and billions in more Halliburton contracts. Therefore the premise for Iraq was a false claim of a 911 connection. This had to be out there to keep the American public on board for at least long enough to get it all started.

So as more time went on Obama became aware of the scam.
He had a choice to expose it, without any physical proof.
Or attack this compound with who ever was in there. Grab up some remains and claim a DNA match.
interesting senario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
this is quite true. stuff i'm reading shows how engaged Obama was in this whole thing. obviously, the SEALS deserve the lionshare of the credit, but they were backed by a focused, informed, prepared president. and i don't mean that in comparison to Bush -- much of this may have to do with timing, luck, etc. -- but i mean that as an independent evaluation of Obama and how he is conducting the GWOT.

i would lie, though, if i didn't admit to worrying a bit about reprisal attacks, living in DC.
Obama knew things could go wrong and took the chance.

Heh, Irving. Me, too, in NYC.
ANd I thot of DC and all major cities in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeannieco View Post
Fanaticism? I do love Obama but I have been known to criticize him too, I know he isn't perfect, but the man has a brain. Come on now.
I don't think I am demonizing Bush by saying that history shows the man has a penchant for starting wars and dropping bombs on people. Shock and Awe?
Ya, Bush was a peacemaker for sure

"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. "
GWB
THIS.
I have plenty to criticize Prs Obama on, and I have a lot of cheer for him as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Ok, I'm prepared to accept that he is dead. I just find the timing of the announcement a bit suspicious.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:22 PM   #415
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someone said today that>>
having him buried some where people could get to the site
would just create more of a cultish situation.

i tend to agree...

will look at the previous 2 pages now.



and hi Mrs Springsteen
 
checking "Greasy Lake" web site as of last thurs no hints of even tour rumors yet
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:28 PM   #416
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medical experiments?


ANd if you (or anyone else here) are
any kind of metaphysical type person imagine a white light around the cities areas you'd be concerned about might help> While Light is for harmonizing, healing and protection. I know I have/do here in nyc.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:37 PM   #417
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This guys a douche.

If the government was so good at lying and faking things then how come they couldn't pretend to discover any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:40 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Whether or not he was personally armed doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. The likelihood of taking him alive without losing one of their own would be very slim. That's just how these missions work. I respect the call of using a SEAL team rather than a bomb.
Osama had said he would not be taken alive...
so depending on how his physical condition was at this time AND the fact that under incredible pressure sometimes people can gain extraordinary strength he just - i say might - have been able to do something to kill himself.


and yes very much respect that Prs Obama chose the Seals vs a bomb.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:57 PM   #419
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Yeah we got Osama USA USA USA !!!


You want proof ? Thats unamerican. You must be a commie.......


Just a few of the things I've heard today from Americans at work.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:57 PM   #420
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Family photo from the 70's that was in the papers today. He's second from right.
When I saw the pic I thought it said "FDNY" in the store window.
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