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Old 05-03-2011, 08:59 AM   #346
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I think having everything neatly 'finished' by the time its all announced makes by far the most sense, and they would not have had much time, or at least, they were probably moving at speed assuming it would probably break even faster than it did. They certainly would not have wanted a "We have the body/but what to do with it?" debate kicking open. Rather, by the time Obama gets up there on tv, it's all done, it's all over, story closed.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:00 AM   #347
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Forty minutes-that is amazing

Not waterboarding but standard interrogation

(AP)WASHINGTON -- When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.

That phone call, recounted Monday by a U.S. official, ended a years-long search for bin Laden's personal courier, the key break in a worldwide manhunt. The courier, in turn, led U.S. intelligence to a walled compound in northeast Pakistan, where a team of Navy SEALs shot bin Laden to death.

The violent final minutes were the culmination of years of intelligence work. Inside the CIA team hunting bin Laden, it always was clear that bin Laden's vulnerability was his couriers. He was too smart to let al-Qaida foot soldiers, or even his senior commanders, know his hideout. But if he wanted to get his messages out, somebody had to carry them, someone bin Laden trusted with his life.

In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.

If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.


It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier's real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA's sources didn't know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold.

Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him.

In August 2010, the courier unknowingly led authorities to a compound in the northeast Pakistani town of Abbottabad, where al-Libi had once lived. The walls surrounding the property were as high as 18 feet and topped with barbed wire. Intelligence officials had known about the house for years, but they always suspected that bin Laden would be surrounded by heavily armed security guards. Nobody patrolled the compound in Abbottabad.

In fact, nobody came or went. And no telephone or Internet lines ran from the compound. The CIA soon believed that bin Laden was hiding in plain sight, in a hideout especially built to go unnoticed. But since bin Laden never traveled and nobody could get onto the compound without passing through two security gates, there was no way to be sure.

Despite that uncertainty, intelligence officials realized this could represent the best chance ever to get to bin Laden. They decided not to share the information with anyone, including staunch counterterrorism allies such as Britain, Canada and Australia.

By mid-February, the officials were convinced a "high-value target" was hiding in the compound. President Barack Obama wanted to take action.

"They were confident and their confidence was growing: 'This is different. This intelligence case is different. What we see in this compound is different than anything we've ever seen before,'" John Brennan, the president's top counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. "I was confident that we had the basis to take action."

Options were limited. The compound was in a residential neighborhood in a sovereign country. If Obama ordered an airstrike and bin Laden was not in the compound, it would be a huge diplomatic problem. Even if Obama was right, obliterating the compound might make it nearly impossible to confirm bin Laden's death.

Said Brennan: "The president had to evaluate the strength of that information, and then made what I believe was one of the most gutsiest calls of any president in recent memory."

Obama tapped two dozen members of the Navy's elite SEAL Team Six to carry out a raid with surgical accuracy.

Before dawn Monday morning, a pair of helicopters left Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. The choppers entered Pakistani airspace using sophisticated technology intended to evade that country's radar systems, a U.S. official said.

Officially, it was a kill-or-capture mission, since the U.S. doesn't kill unarmed people trying to surrender. But it was clear from the beginning that whoever was behind those walls had no intention of surrendering, two U.S. officials said.

The helicopters lowered into the compound, dropping the SEALs behind the walls. No shots were fired, but shortly after the team hit the ground, one of the helicopters came crashing down and rolled onto its side for reasons the government has yet to explain. None of the SEALs was injured, however, and the mission continued uninterrupted.

With the CIA and White House monitoring the situation in real time – presumably by live satellite feed or video carried by the SEALs – the team stormed the compound.

Thanks to sophisticated satellite monitoring, U.S. forces knew they'd likely find bin Laden's family on the second and third floors of one of the buildings on the property, officials said. The SEALs secured the rest of the property first, then proceeded to the room where bin Laden was hiding. In the ensuing firefight, Brennan said, bin Laden used a woman as a human shield.

The SEALs killed bin Laden with a bullet to the head. Using the call sign for his visual identification, one of the soldiers communicated that "Geronimo" had been killed in action, according to a U.S. official.

Bin Laden's body was immediately identifiable, but the U.S. also conducted DNA testing that identified him with near 100 percent certainty, senior administration officials said. Photo analysis by the CIA, confirmation on site by a woman believed to be bin Laden's wife, and matching physical features such as bin Laden's height all helped confirm the identification. At the White House, there was no doubt.

"I think the accomplishment that very brave personnel from the United States government were able to realize yesterday is a defining moment in the war against al-Qaida, the war on terrorism, by decapitating the head of the snake known as al-Qaida," Brennan said.

U.S. forces searched the compound and flew away with documents, hard drives and DVDs that could provide valuable intelligence about al-Qaida, a U.S. official said. The entire operation took about 40 minutes, officials said.

Bin Laden's body was flown to the USS Carl Vinson in the North Arabian sea, a senior defense official said. There, aboard a U.S. warship, officials conducted a traditional Islamic burial ritual. Bin Laden's body was washed and placed in a white sheet. He was placed in a weighted bag that, after religious remarks by a military officer, was slipped into the sea about 2 a.m. EDT Monday.

Said the president: "I think we can all agree this is a good day for America."
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:10 AM   #348
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And btw, it'll be interesting if they show a pic of the body to shut the conspirators up when they release the body dumping/burial.
The problem with conspiracy theorists, is not that they are skeptical, but that they absolutely will not believe anything that doesn't agree with their world view. They like to think they're more rational and scientific than most, but really they'll conveniently side step any evidence that doesn't work for them, whilst treating any supporting evidence with religous-level belief.

If photos are released of OBL's body, conspiracy theorists will scream "fake". If a dodgy, obviously forged photo, with no source, of OBL still alive shows up a year from now, the same people will assume with 100% faith that it is real.

These people aren't interested in finding the real truth, they're only interested in pursuing an agenda - opposing the general mainstream idea of things.

They're basically the hipsters of politics, best ignored.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:19 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.
I think details will remain murky and contradicting for a while, as more and more background information is coming out. But this bit above is interesting as it seems to contradict an (excellent, IMO) background article in the New York Times. Though, as my select quotes show, it might also be a matter of interpretation of the information being available at the moment.
Clues Gradually Led to the Location of Osama bin Laden - NYTimes.com
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The raid was the culmination of years of painstaking intelligence work, including the interrogation of C.I.A. detainees in secret prisons in Eastern Europe, where sometimes what was not said was as useful as what was.

[...]

Prisoners in American custody told stories of a trusted courier. When the Americans ran the man’s pseudonym past two top-level detainees — the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; and Al Qaeda’s operational chief, Abu Faraj al-Libi — the men claimed never to have heard his name. That raised suspicions among interrogators that the two detainees were lying and that the courier probably was an important figure.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:57 AM   #350
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Why on earth would they keep the body?
They need it for their DNA collection. The government is building the ultimate weapon against terror. The American clone, it will look like Bin Laden, it will be strategic like Bin Laden, but will be all American(even with a birth certificate) and infiltrate and destroy Al Queda from the inside.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:08 AM   #351
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A photo I took last night


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Old 05-03-2011, 10:14 AM   #352
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After 3,454 days, a middle school teacher in Ephrata, Washington, is finally free to shave a beard he has been growing since Sept. 11, 2001, in the name of freedom.

Gary Weddle, 50, was so affected by the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon that he stopped shaving.

"When the twin towers came down, I was horrified and I was glued to that television," Weddle told KOMO News during an interview in June 2003. "And [I] realized that not only was I not taking showers, I wasn't shaving."

Weddle says he was so engrossed in the national tragedy that he hardly noticed his unkempt face. However, after a few days of growth, Weddle made a vow not to shave until terrorist leader Osama bin Laden was captured or proven dead.

He originally figured that would happen in a month or two, but as the months and years passed by, Weddle started looking more like a member of ZZ Top or one of the guys on the Smith Brothers Cough Drops box. Some of the mangy strands measured 14 inches.

Neither Weddle nor his wife, Donita, liked his hirsute look one bit, but he figured a promise is a promise and he stuck to his guns.

"I wanted him to get rid of it, but it was his vow," Donita said. "I respected his passion and keeping a vow. I was willing to look past the beard because I love him."
Story continues below

Luckily, she doesn't have to look past it anymore.

As of 7:48 p.m. PST Sunday night, Weddle's whiskers are a memory.

He was working in his garden at home Sunday evening when he heard the news that bin Laden was dead from a colleague. At first, he was skeptical, since other folks had made similar claims as jokes over the past 9-and-a-half years.

However, once Weddle got confirmation, he wasted no time finding scissors and razors. He had shaved his beard even before President Obama addressed the nation about bin Laden's demise.

Friends and neighbors celebrated with him. They watched as he got a little bloodied, having become somewhat inexperienced in shaving over the past decade. Once the beard was gone, Weddle expressed amazement at the feel of his face.

Previously, at the start of each school year, Weddle had told his students the beard was a reminder of the attacks, frequently saying he didn't understand how anyone could use the name of his God to justify murder.

Now, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports that Weddle's dedication has attracted acclaim from his fellow teachers. School principal Jill Palmquist honored him on Monday, telling students they should admire the teacher for sticking to his vow not to shave.

But while bin Laden's death marks the end of an era for Weddle, his method of burial creates a dilemma for the teacher.

Weddle had originally planned to shave the beard and send it to bin Laden. Now that bin Laden's body has been buried at sea, it's unclear what he will do with the trimmings.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:16 AM   #353
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Bye Bye Fuker rest peacefully in hell
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:23 AM   #354
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He communicated via satellite phone in the 90s, until he discovered it was traceable.

That was just a joke



Infringing sovereignty: Musharraf criticises US action
By Reuters
Published: May 3, 2011

Former president calls the operation a direct violation of Pakistan's sovereignty. PHOTO: AFP/FILE

Former military ruler Pervez Musharraf called Osama bin Laden’s death on Monday a “positive step” but criticised the United States for launching the raid on the al Qaeda leader within Pakistan’s borders.

Musharraf told Reuters that Pakistani intelligence ought to have known bin Laden was living in Abbottabad. He also said al Qaeda supporters may take revenge against the United States and Pakistan.

Describing the killing as a victory for the people of Pakistan, Musharraf said: “It’s a very positive step and it will have positive long-term implications.” “Today we won a battle, but the war against terror will continue,” Musharraf said in Dubai, where he has a home.

Musharraf said, however, that the operation had infringed on Pakistan’s sovereignty: “It’s a violation to have crossed Pakistan’s borders,” he said in an interview.

Musharraf also criticised Pakistan’s intelligence apparatus for failing to find bin Laden, whose group staged the Sept 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

“It’s an intelligence failure,” said Musharraf. “The intelligence ought to have known.”

Pakistani authorities were told the details of the raid on bin Laden only after it had taken place, highlighting a lack of trust between Washington and Islamabad.

Musharraf called bin Laden’s decision to hide near Islamabad, rather than in the remote regions of the country where he was thought to be hiding, “an intelligent act”.

At the same time, Musharraf admitted that the attack came at a time when al Qaeda’s influence in Pakistan had been replaced by growing Taliban influence.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 3rd, 2011.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #355
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Why on earth would they keep the body?

Its called evidence and it is the basis of law and justice.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:30 AM   #356
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Its called evidence and it is the basis of law and justice.
yeah, that probably wouldn't be good since they just, you know, assassinated the guy.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:31 AM   #357
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"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
--Martin Luther King, Jr.

yeah... perfect quote Diemen... the whole thing has left me feeling quite strange... i'm glad they finally found Bin Laden, and he did say he would die fighting... but i don't take pleasure in death, and i feel uneasy hearing it described as "justice"... what kind of "justice" is that? "justice" by the bullet? if we claim to find justice in death/assassination however it's described, i think we're sending out quite a dangerous message there...



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Old 05-03-2011, 10:33 AM   #358
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It really doesn't solve anything that they killed him. They should have brought him to trial.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:36 AM   #359
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thats a cool story about the teacher, but why did he grow a beard exactly like Bin Laden?
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:47 AM   #360
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It really doesn't solve anything that they killed him. They should have brought him to trial.
Everyone who keeps saying this, what and how do you suggest this would have happened?

Magic?

The guy was probably the most paranoid man walking the planet(except maybe Glenn Beck) and probably pretty well fortified and armed. How do you take someone alive who is determined to go out fighting?
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