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Old 05-02-2011, 01:09 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
The images of frat boys partying and chanting is repugnant though, I agree zuropafit.

this is one of the reasons why i've resisted going down to the White House. i was there when Obama won in 2008 and that was glorious, people were dancing in the streets.

this is different. most people are just gathering, so to speak, but there do seem to be some idiots in the crowd (like any crowd).
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:10 AM   #152
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Colour me naive, but why is that a dumb question?
Because Osama was never captured? Hard to give a trial to someone not in your custody.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:10 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Holy fuck there are some dumb callers on C-SPAN. "Why wasn't Bin Laden given a fair trial?"


........
Wikipedia is fast:

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's called trolling C-SPAN. Hard.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:12 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Fabricated story? Maaaaybe.

Fabricated death? Highly, highly unlikely. Don't think the US would have the balls to say he's dead knowing fine well that Osama could just release a tape saying 'fuck you America, I'm actually alive. Stop making shit up.'

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they have pre-taped Osama videos to be released as propaganda just for this.
Don't think for one moment that I believe that the death of a major cultural figure can be fabricated as easily as some of the conspiracy theorists are assuming it to be.

But don't think for one moment that I've missed the significant economic and sociopolitical implications this has on our citizens and the Obama administration, respectively.

I'm certainly somewhat skeptical of the details, if not of the death itself.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:12 AM   #155
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Pop skeptics often become the tin-foil hat wearers they are supposed to counter.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:13 AM   #156
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Al Qaeda No.2 Zawahri most likely to succeed bin Laden | Reuters

Here's the new #1:

Quote:
"I want to direct the attention of our Muslim brothers in Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and the rest of the Muslim countries, that if the Americans and the NATO forces enter Libya then their neighbors in Egypt and Tunisia and Algeria and the rest of the Muslim countries should rise up and fight both the mercenaries of Gaddafi and the rest of NATO," Zawahri said.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:14 AM   #157
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Don't think for one moment that I believe that the death of a major cultural figure can be fabricated as easily as some of the conspiracy theorists are assuming it to be.
I agree

Now the life, and even the time (year) of the death??,
that is a completely different story.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:17 AM   #158
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here's a decent summary of the news:

Quote:
In a rare, late-night statement from the White House Sunday at 11:35 p.m., President Obama announced that Osama Bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces in a firefight Sunday, in "a compound deep inside Pakistan." Bin Laden was the founder and leader of the Al Qaeda network that perpetrated the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

His death comes nearly 10 years after the terrorist attacks that made him the world's most wanted fugitive, and eight years to the day after President George W. Bush declared Mission Accomplished in Iraq.

According to Obama, the U.S. acquired the initial intelligence it needed to locate, and ultimately kill, Bin Laden last August. After working in conjunction with Pakistani intelligence forces, Obama gave the green light Friday to the operation that resulted in the deadly Sunday raid. Bin Laden was located by the CIA in a massive, fortified compound north of Islamabad, Pakistan, and killed by U.S. military forces.

No Americans were killed or injured in the raid. A woman at the site being used as a human shield died, according to a senior administration official on a conference call with reporters. Bin Laden is said to have resisted the assault force and been killed in an ensuing firefight. Intelligence officials in other countries, including Pakistan, were only informed of the raid after it had been conducted.

The United States lost a helicopter to mechanical failure and intentionally destroyed the disabled aircraft during the mission.

Reiterating that the United States' wars in the Muslim world are not wars against Islam, Obama noted that Bin Laden "was not a Muslim leader. Indeed, he slaughtered scores of Muslims.... his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in human piece and in human dignity."

Bin Laden's body is in U.S. custody, on its way to the United States, and is being handled, according to administration officials, in accordance with Islamic traditions.

The initial reports of his death were based on leaks that took place after the White House briefed key congressional players on the successful operation. Official reactions from Capitol Hill Republicans and Democrats have been overwhelmingly laudatory to Obama, and, with rare exception, have been unpolitical. ("I commend President Obama who has followed the vigilance of President Bush in bringing Bin Laden to justice," said House Majority Leader Eric Cantor.)

Before he was elected President, Obama vowed to capture and kill Bin Laden. Early in his Presidency, George W. Bush claimed at a press conference that he'd largely lost interest in Bin Laden's whereabouts. His administration's inability to locate Bin Laden became a major political liability until he left office.

In a statement shortly after Obama spoke, Bush said, "Earlier this evening, President Obama called to inform me that American forces killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of the al Qaeda network that attacked America on September 11, 2001. I congratulated him and the men and women of our military and intelligence communities who devoted their lives to this mission."

"It's bringing back a lot of emotions from September 11th, and I'm thinking about the victims and families from that day," said former Bush spokesman Tony Fratto in a statement to TPM. "The world is better today knowing he's gone, but we know that we have to stay vigilant in fighting the the terrorists he spawned."

Administration officials claim there are no specific threats to the United States in the wake of Bin Laden's death, but nonetheless say there is a heightened national security threat at this time.

OSAMA BIN LADEN DEAD | TPMDC
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:22 AM   #159
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I see where you're coming from, but I think given the fact the man is evil personified, surely you can crack a smile, even if you don't "get off on it".

The images of frat boys partying and chanting is repugnant though, I agree zuropafit.
The line I think of is "they weren't born wanting to do this". I don't believe that people are born hating certain groups of people or nations, and wanting to kill as many people as possible. I think it's important that we try to understand what circumstances people like him grew up in, that shaped him, that led him to becoming what he became. You can call him evil, but evil doesn't just happen, and determining where it comes from might be more productive than celebrating its demise.

That's not to say I'm shedding any tears right now. Feeling pride that we finally caught a long-sought enemy is fine, feeling a surge of patriotism because of that is fine, and I completely understand why people who lost loved ones on 9/11 and/or who have lost loved ones in Afghanistan or Iraq would want to celebrate this, but that can be done without sounding and looking like 12 year olds, that can be done in a thoughtful way rather than a callus way.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:23 AM   #160
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Finally, we know what Jack Bauer's been up to all these years.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:29 AM   #161
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i have a (very, very close) friend who has a fairly dramatic 9/11 story that's too complicated to get into here, but he actually called me in tears. for many people, it's an enormous event that's also deeply personal.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:30 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
The line I think of is "they weren't born wanting to do this". I don't believe that people are born hating certain groups of people or nations, and wanting to kill as many people as possible. I think it's important that we try to understand what circumstances people like him grew up in, that shaped him, that led him to becoming what he became. You can call him evil, but evil doesn't just happen, and determining where it comes from might be more productive than celebrating its demise.

That's not to say I'm shedding any tears right now. Feeling pride that we finally caught a long-sought enemy is fine, feeling a surge of patriotism because of that is fine, and I completely understand why people who lost loved ones on 9/11 and/or who have lost loved ones in Afghanistan or Iraq would want to celebrate this, but that can be done without sounding and looking like 12 year olds, that can be done in a thoughtful way rather than a callus way.
Very mature way of looking at it, and I hope it creates some interesting sociological discussion - but personally I don't want to give Osama any remote kind of sympathy. Sorry if you or others don't agree with me on that.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:31 AM   #163
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i have a (very, very close) friend who has a fairly dramatic 9/11 story that's too complicated to get into here, but he actually called me in tears. for many people, it's an enormous event that's also deeply personal.
This side of things is why it brings a smile to my face. For those who were directly affected by 9/11... it's enormous.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:31 AM   #164
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I wonder how long before they release the remains to the family.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:33 AM   #165
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Wow, it didn't take long for the haters to come out. There's skeptical and then there's delusion. Seriously, no matter what Obama does there's going to be people screaming conspiracy or hoax. Give me a freaking break.

I am so glad he is our president right now.
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