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Old 11-07-2017, 06:04 PM   #736
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Hunting and home protection are about the only purposes for guns I see, and none of that should involve high capacity weaponry. Rifles are about the extent of what I'm ok with.


Gunnut: the 2nd amendment doesn’t guarantee my right to hunt. It guarantees my right to protection; protection from a tyrannical government, terrorist attack, or a zombie apocalypse. Who are you to say high capacity weapons aren’t necessary for any of those events?

We’ve read that argument in here, and they’re right if that’s how we define these rights. That’s why I believe there has to be a focus on how the constitution grants these rights to regulated groups, not individuals.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:09 PM   #737
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Gunnut: the 2nd amendment doesn’t guarantee my right to hunt. It guarantees my right to protection; protection from a tyrannical government, terrorist attack, or a zombie apocalypse. Who are you to say high capacity weapons aren’t necessary for any of those events?

We’ve read that argument in here, and they’re right if that’s how we define these rights. That’s why I believe there has to be a focus on how the constitution grants these rights to regulated groups, not individuals.


Agreed in some light. I can use a nuclear bomb to defend myself against a tyrannical government. After all, how am I to defend myself against a heavily armed tyrannical government?

But, the constitution is the only way to fix it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:01 PM   #738
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But, the constitution is the only way to fix it.
And the SCOTUS is likely to be refreshed again in Trump's/Pence's presidency, correct?
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:28 PM   #739
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And the SCOTUS is likely to be refreshed again in Trump's/Pence's presidency, correct?


Probably if he gets re-elected. However, it's the senate/states who decide on constitutional amendments.

If we have something challenging the bill of rights, you'd first need a huge democrat victory in 2018, and a sustained movement in 2020.

Hence why a broken Democratic Party is a problem. But, you can at least get the movement rolling with a loud voice *right now*.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:00 AM   #740
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Find a terrorist incident of any kind that wasn't a bomb that managed double digits. It probably doesn't exist.
Nice, France truck attack?
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:19 AM   #741
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Nice, France truck attack?


In some alternate history those kingdoms united.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:32 AM   #742
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In some alternate history those kingdoms united.
Oh so only the UK, well so the London bridge truck & stabbing only killed 8 and injured 48 so its not double digits, so therefore all is well.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:54 AM   #743
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Oh so only the UK, well so the London bridge truck & stabbing only killed 8 and injured 48 so its not double digits, so therefore all is well.


I'm not sure if you're gently calling me out for some disregard for human life right there, but the point was about guns and terrorism.

You can't stop someone's decision to drive a car into people. You can't stop someone making a bomb at home. Intelligence can, but legislation... not really. Guns? You can stop them. And they're typically the deadliest form of mass murder, unless it's a highly sophisticated plot.

What happens when three terrorists in england, without a sophisticated plot, attempt to commit mass murder? Excuse my crudeness, but they could barely exchange their life for two others before being fought back against and shot dead by armed police in a carefully thought out system.

Is that story unique, though? No. Westminster bridge. Same deal. Finsbury Park? Same deal. The U.K. has a terrorism history of petty attacks and mostly failed bombings. Meanwhile, in the US, I imagine #10 on the US mass shooting list is bigger than #1 in the U.K. for non IED attacks. Heck, I bet #20 is bigger than #1.
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Old 11-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #744
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Not calling you out, just making the point that there are ways to commit mass murder that terrorists are currently employing that no form of legislation unfortunately will prevent.
I agree about gun control, just that your original statement that in the UK mass murder doesn't happen without a bomb or guns was a little too simplistic.
Obviously if these folks have no access to guns it makes it more difficult to commit these acts of terror, but they can find other means, and the vehicle into a crowd method is becoming far too prevalent nowadays, and can cause mass casualties.
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Old 11-09-2017, 01:13 PM   #745
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Not calling you out, just making the point that there are ways to commit mass murder that terrorists are currently employing that no form of legislation unfortunately will prevent.
I agree about gun control, just that your original statement that in the UK mass murder doesn't happen without a bomb or guns was a little too simplistic.
Obviously if these folks have no access to guns it makes it more difficult to commit these acts of terror, but they can find other means, and the vehicle into a crowd method is becoming far too prevalent nowadays, and can cause mass casualties.


You've missed the point, still.

It's not just some one-off simplistic statement. In the case of London bridge, three attackers got out of a vehicle with knives and fake suicide vests. And people fought back.

Those attackers just as easily could have had guns, were this the United States. And nobody would've fought back. And scores would have been dead.

I never disagreed about different ways existing that are being employed. If you've noticed, the vehicle thing more often than not is far less efficient than they wish it to be. The reality is, guns allow for non-sophisticated plots to have rapid casualties. Cars typically do not, or are, at the very least, a crapshoot for those terrorists.
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:00 PM   #746
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Some Florida school is selling bullet-proof backpack inserts, because this is our life now.

Bulletproof panels for students' backpacks being sold by Florida school - CNN
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:04 PM   #747
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Ah, capitalism on the fear of consumers.

Such a disgusting thing.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:07 PM   #748
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We’ve read that argument in here, and they’re right if that’s how we define these rights. That’s why I believe there has to be a focus on how the constitution grants these rights to regulated groups, not individuals.
I don't know what you mean by this. Focus by who? To what end? The SCOTUS has spoken on this issue, that makes it settled, until the Court changes their opinion or the Constitution is changed.

Until then, the individual/collective right debate is an academic discussion. And I mean that literally...an academic debate among Constitutional scholars. And there are plenty of good arguments by brilliant minds on both sides of that one.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:05 PM   #749
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Sigh.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/three-kil...182238179.html

My reaction to this news should not be a simple "sigh". And yet...
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:12 PM   #750
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Sigh.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/three-kil...182238179.html

My reaction to this news should not be a simple "sigh". And yet...
My reaction also scares me cuz it seems I'm just more or less numb to it...

BUT more importatntly WHAT kind of weapon was it... cuz you know... that's whats important.
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