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Old 07-18-2016, 01:13 PM   #256
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San Francisco starting salary is over 80K. I'm wrong in what I thought was the #1 salary as it's probably Chicago if I remember correctly. But San Francisco's contract guarantees them #2. At those starting wages and the seven year raise, you can afford a million dollar home with a 30 year mortgage, etc.

Once a cop has been there for seven years, they're basically making the same, if not a little more, than most of the new techies that live in the city. So, yes, they can easily afford the sky-high rents or purchasing an apartment, etc. Beyond that, their salary is plenty to purchase a home and quickly commute from anywhere else nearby.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:19 PM   #257
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San Francisco starting salary is over 80K. I'm wrong in what I thought was the #1 salary as it's probably Chicago if I remember correctly. But San Francisco's contract guarantees them #2. At over 100K a year, starting, you can afford a million dollar home with a 30 year mortgage, etc.

Once a cop has been there for seven years, they're basically making the same, if not a little more, than most of the techies that live in the city. So, yes, they can easily afford the sky-high rents or purchasing an apartment, etc.
False:

Salary and Benefits | Police Department

Rent or mortgage should be no more than 30% of your income.

#berniemathdoesntwork
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:21 PM   #258
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Hell, my software engineering friends who started at $120k/year in San Francisco can't foresee a time when they'll be able to buy houses there.
It all depends on your lifestyle. Honest to god, my total non-rent expenses in a year run maybe $12,000, tops. So, if we're saying I had $100,000 after taxes, then I could theoretically put most of that towards a house payment...

But that's me. And I don't really live some sort of pauper lifestyle, but don't require a car (girlfriend has one though, but we didn't have one when living in SF or Berkeley) and don't really go out for food and drink much, etc.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:22 PM   #259
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False:

Salary and Benefits | Police Department

Rent or mortgage should be no more than 30% of your income.

#berniemathdoesntwork

The operative word is should. I spend about half my income on the house payments and would spend even more on it if I made even more. Again, it's all down to lifestyle. No kids, etc.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:29 PM   #260
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The operative word is should. I spend about half my income on the house payments and would spend even more on it if I made even more. Again, it's all down to lifestyle. No kids, etc.
Well unless you are sponging off someone I seriously doubt your annual expenses are only 5,000.00.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:36 PM   #261
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Well unless you are sponging off someone I seriously doubt your annual expenses are only 5,000.00.
Yeah, I was literally falling asleep and going to bed right now and it all started running through my head.

I'd say $12,000 a year constitutes all my expenses including health care, 401K pre-tax, commuting, food (those are the biggies I guess). While my half of the mortgage (including interest, insurance, etc.) runs like another $7,000 or whatever.

So, in general, subtracting $12-15,000 from any sum of money and I could honestly just toss the rest at a nice house or completing a mortgage, etc. But again, that's me. That figure though shouldn't sound too crazy as plenty of low-wage or part time, childless hipster types get by on $20K a year and such (although no longer in a lot of metropolitan areas, obviously).
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:36 PM   #262
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Well unless you are sponging off someone I seriously doubt your annual expenses are only 5,000.00.
Yeah honestly. Health insurance? Groceries? Clothing? $ for cabs/gas for girlfriend's car/public transit? Dental expenses? Prescription drugs? Cell phone? Cable? Internet? Toiletries? Any loans (student, etc)? All of that costs you $400/month?

I mean I find that VERY hard to believe. Just the food alone would run you at least half that (if you're being very frugal with what you buy AND never eat out AND especially never drink out).
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:36 PM   #263
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Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

Curious if you pay health insurance/phone/car/transport etc bills? $5000 is not enough in one year for these items, when you start to factor in the cost of food.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:40 PM   #264
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Yeah, again, it's about $12,000 give or take a bit. I completely effed up when I put up that first number.

My Obamacare premium with the subsidy has ranged from like $33-46 a month over the years (sometimes going down one year to the next, sometimes up) while San Francisco's forced HRAs for employers means all of the out of pocket expenses have been, yes, free.

I only pay $25 a month for my cellphone. I have no need for a smartphone. I have no interest in playing games or surfing the web on one and I listen to my iPod while commuting. I will admit that handy coupons and the maps feature would be nice to have all the time.

I pay for insurance and fixes on our older car which cost almost nothing to purchase a few years back. We have a second new one that the gf decided to buy thanks to being a techie with some major salary increases due to changing jobs.

I spend about $2,000 a year on BART alone, actually.


No student loans, no ongoing medication (been sick once for a week from age 13 to now).

We get super fast internet here because nobody else really wants it and that's only $45 a month from Comcast for a service they charge like $100 a month. Have Amazon Prime, Netflix and Hulu for paid entertainment, Kodi and someone's HBO password for more illegal stuff on our set-top box.

I literally don't buy clothes. At all. There will be new shoes necessary for myself or work relatively frequently though.

I'm not a foodie, really. I'm a vegetarian by choice and had to become a vegan due to a digestion sort of issue, but I really don't have anything in my life where I ever even really think about the cost or whatever. Both my girlfriend and I have a mentality where we would think certain things are too expensive and avoid them even if we have the money like $300 for a single concert ticket or whatever...but no, I don't really live a penny pinching existence or whatever, but I get that I'm fortunate for a lot of reasons as to having someone to share a home with, an American city with a high-wage floor and good (required) benefits, etc.



Strangely, beyond costs related to more (and better) work lunches and such (the more you work, the more you spend on food due to time constraints), if I were to work more at a job with higher pay I'm pretty sure I would actually spend less on the general stuff. Simply by virtue of having less time to spend on entertainment things, etc. since I'd be spending more time at work. And when working full-time in the past, I like to go out even less since I'm just more exhausted.

Anyway, just food for thought. I know for a fact there's plenty of millennials in NYC or SF that spend more money eating mid-priced takeout in a month than I actually make in a month. So my lifestyle is probably ab-normal compared to a lot of people. Just the cellphone thing alone is anywhere from like $500-1000 extra in my pocket a year, etc. How may other cities make the employers pay into HRA for every hour worked? Or places that allow you to commute from an hour away for $2,000 a year, etc.?
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:52 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
False:

Salary and Benefits | Police Department

Rent or mortgage should be no more than 30% of your income.

#berniemathdoesntwork
Oh no, a $1mm house is totally affordable on a $100k income. The mortage payment is only ~$6k/month. After federal and California state income taxes, $100k/year becomes ~$5.3k/month. So making that $6k/month mortgage payment is totally doable.

(I wish.)
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:57 PM   #266
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Jesus, are you sure about that? That would make that million dollar home come out to 2,160,000 for thirty years. That's just terrible.

But, case in point, had my girlfriend and I each made $100,000 a year five years ago, we could've bought a great house in Berkeley for $500-600,000 (good luck with that now) and each chucked fifty grand a year at the thing, finishing the mortage in five-to-six years. And that's not crazy, plenty of Bay Area techies have short mortgages and before properties really started rising through the roof recently, it was common for a lot of them to just chuck $500,000 in cash at a home (you'd be surprised how much can be saved on two incomes, no kids, and moderately expensive rent of five-to-ten years ago).

It is a fucking joke now though. These techies are spending like $60,000 a year just to rent an apartment. It's appalling. A new techie moving to San Francisco (if they're lucky enough to brave the hordes and actually find a place) can basically become a lower middle class individual after paying rent and higher prices for goods in the city. For doing the most sought after work in the country at the moment.
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:02 PM   #267
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Jesus, are you sure about that? That would make that million dollar home come out to 2,160,000 for thirty years. That's just terrible.

The calculator I used was a little high on the interest rate by 2016 standards (somewhere in the high 3% range), and it obviously ignores the mortgage interest deduction. You could also lower that with a down payment, but obviously generating that sort of cash takes time. So maybe my example was a little exaggerated, but you're not going to get to the place where a $1mm house is remotely affordable on a $100k income.

It shows that the so-called "progressive" anti-development policies of San Francisco and elsewhere are a disaster that have made owning property there only accessible for the massively-wealthy, or baby boomers who lucked into buying some condo in the Embarcadero area for $30k in the 80s.


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Old 07-18-2016, 02:07 PM   #268
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So, if we're saying I had $100,000 after taxes, .
The 7 year salary is $113,282.00, under who's tax plan would you clear $100,000 out of that and why in God's name isn't that person running for POTUS?
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:10 PM   #269
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Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

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It is a fucking joke now though. These techies are spending like $60,000 a year just to rent an apartment. It's appalling. A new techie moving to San Francisco (if they're lucky enough to brave the hordes and actually find a place) can basically become a lower middle class individual after paying rent and higher prices for goods in the city. For doing the most sought after work in the country at the moment.

Yeah, seriously. I just graduated college and ended up with a choice between being a techie in California and a consultant in Texas... the lifestyle difference is breathtaking, even if I'm actually making less money in Texas than I would have been in California. I love California, but it's just really hard to justify living there.

And these problems are the ones faced by well-paid professionals. What everyone else has to deal with is so much worse.


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Old 07-18-2016, 02:22 PM   #270
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The 7 year salary is $113,282.00, under who's tax plan would you clear $100,000 out of that and why in God's name isn't that person running for POTUS?
Definitely not the Bern's that's for sure.
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