Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

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You're right, the real problem is people pointing out how often these attacks are carried out by radicalized white guys who spent a little too much time online being told minorities ruined their lives. Not the terrorists themselves.
 
Don't even bother to engage. You know what his response would be if the victims were white. He's a waste of time communicating with and a lost cause. Put your efforts into a more positive direction.
 
Were you hoping for a certain motivation while the bodies were still warm?


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This is the most common cop out of an answer from the right I've seen. You're going to come in here and try and deflect criticism by trying to frame your opposition as insensitive towards the dead...

Please.
 
Don't even bother to engage. You know what his response would be if the victims were white. He's a waste of time communicating with and a lost cause. Put your efforts into a more positive direction.


You and I share some similar views, but I feel like we always differ on what to engage ?
 
This is the most common cop out of an answer from the right I've seen. You're going to come in here and try and deflect criticism by trying to frame your opposition as insensitive towards the dead...

Please.


Bono212 seems to be insinuating that Trump's travel ban was somehow motivation for the shooters.

Sad statement.


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Bono212 seems to be insinuating that Trump's travel ban was somehow motivation for the shooters.

Sad statement.


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why is that a "sad statement" though? You can disavow it, and I already know you do. But it's very likely that the "you're not welcome here" message propagated into a hate crime. Definite? Nothing is definite.
 
Bono212 seems to be insinuating that Trump's travel ban was somehow motivation for the shooters.

Sad statement.


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No it wasn't the travel ban that incited this violence. It was trumps rhetoric and hate filled messages over the last 1-2 years that sent a precedent that it is OK to hate on and pick on a certain group such as Muslims. Plain and simple.
 
No it wasn't the travel ban that incited this violence. It was trumps rhetoric and hate filled messages over the last 1-2 years that sent a precedent that it is OK to hate on and pick on a certain group such as Muslims. Plain and simple.
Not sure it's possible or necessary to lay blame this early, but the general normalizing of 'muslims are bad and worth less than us' is scary as hell and surely doesn't help.
 
Not sure it's possible or necessary to lay blame this early, but the general normalizing of 'muslims are bad and worth less than us' is scary as hell and surely doesn't help.
Well the White House certainly seems to think it's OK to use the attack as an example of why we need to be vigilant.

I....don't understand their logic...but...there you have it.
 
Bono212 seems to be insinuating that Trump's travel ban was somehow motivation for the shooters.

Sad statement.


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Trump's victory has emboldened white supremacists who believe they are at war with minority groups. These things don't happen in a fucking vacuum.
 
To kind of steer this discussion back to the topic.....

There are some very strange things in regards to this attack last night. The two shooters wore ski masks when they shot up the place and went to great lengths to conceal their identities although they supposedly shouted "Alah Akbar" as they carried out the attack. One of the suspected shooters quickly turned himself in and expressed "regret" for his actions which seems really odd.

It's been speculated that this may either be retaliation if some in the Mosque were working with law enforcement or that it may be a Sunni vs Shia conflict starting to spill into Western countries. At least for now, it doesn't appear to be the predictable "Anti-Muslim" Nationalistic style hate crime and it's certainly too soon to draw conclusions.
 
To kind of steer this discussion back to the topic.....

There are some very strange things in regards to this attack last night. The two shooters wore ski masks when they shot up the place and went to great lengths to conceal their identities although they supposedly shouted "Alah Akbar" as they carried out the attack. One of the suspected shooters quickly turned himself in and expressed "regret" for his actions which seems really odd.

It's been speculated that this may either be retaliation if some in the Mosque were working with law enforcement or that it may be a Sunni vs Shia conflict starting to spill into Western countries. At least for now, it doesn't appear to be the predictable "Anti-Muslim" Nationalistic style hate crime and it's certainly too soon to draw conclusions.


You sure about that?

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30...as-a-moroccan-muslim-hes-a-white-nationalist/
 
I mean, it's well-known that ISIS doesn't only target non-Muslims. They carry out attacks in Muslim parts of the world, so it's not unimaginable that an attack like this could be done by Muslims. But let's face it, this kind of attack, it's not hard to make a correct assumption.

Edit: Oh, look. Yep, not shocked at all.
 
To kind of steer this discussion back to the topic.....

There are some very strange things in regards to this attack last night. The two shooters wore ski masks when they shot up the place and went to great lengths to conceal their identities although they supposedly shouted "Alah Akbar" as they carried out the attack. One of the suspected shooters quickly turned himself in and expressed "regret" for his actions which seems really odd.

It's been speculated that this may either be retaliation if some in the Mosque were working with law enforcement or that it may be a Sunni vs Shia conflict starting to spill into Western countries. At least for now, it doesn't appear to be the predictable "Anti-Muslim" Nationalistic style hate crime and it's certainly too soon to draw conclusions.


Information bubbles will do this to you.


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Of course not, but like the sun rises in the morning you can bet that this attack will be forgotten about tomorrow, whereas if it were the other way around it would be the worst thing to ever happen.
 
yep. the difference in the reaction between this attack and the attack on the parliament buildings a couple years ago is certainly saying something about this country.
 
Yeah, I caught that this afternoon. Hence my "...certainly too soon to draw conclusions" comment at the end of my earlier post.

BTW, this isn't a contest to see who's right or not, it's a tragedy.
I'm not going to ignore blatant lies by the media and our government, sorry/not sorry.
 
Yeah, I caught that this afternoon. Hence my "...certainly too soon to draw conclusions" comment at the end of my earlier post.

BTW, this isn't a contest to see who's right or not, it's a tragedy.
When events like these are leading to policy decisions, it absolutely matters what happened and how people understand it. Don't be weak, admit you were wrong and maybe think about what led you to being wrong. Whether it's your own expectations or the media you consume, something let you to this. Let's try and learn something before we start a fucking war.
 
When events like these are leading to policy decisions, it absolutely matters what happened and how people understand it. Don't be weak, admit you were wrong and maybe think about what led you to being wrong. Whether it's your own expectations or the media you consume, something let you to this. Let's try and learn something before we start a fucking war.

Oh for fuck's sake....

I was pointing out earlier in my original post how certain things seemed odd and didn't really add up in regards to the initial news reports. Yeah, I also including a couple items that alluded to the possibility of this may have not been the "typical" anti-Muslim hate crime but hey, as more news has come out, yeah, looks like a crazy far-right nutcase.

And another thing... we've been at war for almost 2 decades now whether you realize it or not.

The us vs them echo chamber nature of rock band political forums is why I typically stay out of them. Thanks for reminding me of that fact.
 
And another thing... we've been at war for almost 2 decades now whether you realize it or not.



The us vs them echo chamber nature of rock band political forums is why I typically stay out of them. Thanks for reminding me of that fact.

War or not, doesn't make living in your own echo chamber alright. The suspect's name had already been released when you posted that.



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Both sides are guilty of it.

What I can't stand from the conservative side of things when these things happen is - time and time again - when it's a white assailant, they're a lone wolf with mental health issues. But if the assailant is a Muslim, then Islam is the problem. I'd love Partyslammer or one of our other conservatives here to explain that to me.

We just had an attack here in Melbourne last week. A bloke drove into a crowd of people, killing six and injuring about 30. There were people on Twitter begging for it to be a Muslim. Turned out it wasn't. It was a Greek Australian with severe mental health issues and drug addiction.

But even if it had been a Muslim, that doesn't - or it shouldn't - fucking matter. To get in a car and mow people down - like what happened in Berlin and in Nice - you have to be mentally ill. You don't get in a car and mow people down because you're a Muslim. Otherwise every non-Muslim on the planet would already be dead.

So why don't we talk about better services for mental health? If we had better services then maybe that Orlando shooting wouldn't have happened.

That's a question I want conservatives to answer me.
 
The us vs them echo chamber nature of rock band political forums is why I typically stay out of them. Thanks for reminding me of that fact.
It is "us vs them." One side of the aisle is on the wrong side of history on basically every issue, and I'm not mincing words anymore. There are not multiple legitimate viewpoints. Conservatism is a plague.
 
Conservatism is a plague.


I would amend that to read "conservatism as practiced today by the Republican Party in the United States." I know more than a few principled conservatives (including several family members) who are disgusted with the direction the Republican Party has turned in the last decade.
 
I would amend that to read "conservatism as practiced today by the Republican Party in the United States."

While it would be nice to take the higher moral ground here, let's be honest, the rest of the world ain't a whole lot better.
 
I would amend that to read "conservatism as practiced today by the Republican Party in the United States." I know more than a few principled conservatives (including several family members) who are disgusted with the direction the Republican Party has turned in the last decade.

More of a lean towards economic conservatism, less enthused with what seems to be still an extreme social conservatism?
 
i would amend that to read "conservatism as practiced today by the republican party in the united states." i know more than a few principled conservatives (including several family members) who are disgusted with the direction the republican party has turned in the last decade.

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