Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

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If the guy were planning to hunt, he could've just stayed in Alaska. Why would somebody fly through multiple states just to go hunting?

And I remember when people couldn't bring shampoo bottles over a certain size on planes after 9/11. But people can check guns at airports?

Yeah I'm really not keen on this whole "what about the hunters" line of argument regarding guns, partially because I think hunting is inherently barbaric and partially because it opens the doors for this sort of violence.
 
If the guy were planning to hunt, he could've just stayed in Alaska. Why would somebody fly through multiple states just to go hunting?



And I remember when people couldn't bring shampoo bottles over a certain size on planes after 9/11. But people can check guns at airports?


The shampoo was only for carry on, you check-in almost anything.

I don't think you'll ever stop guns being checked in, but I'm with Headache, a more monitored check in and pick up would be nice.

I bet after this incident we'll probably get some legislation about that... oh wait, that would be if a fucking looney bin of quacks weren't moving into the White House.


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Ah, got it, okay, thanks for clearing that up. Still seems odd to me, though.

I was wondering about that, too, Cori. But yeah, in the press conference I saw he said that he's been in contact with Trump and Pence and they've offered federal support or something to that effect :huh:.

He also said Obama hadn't gotten in touch with him yet, and conversely, he hadn't reached out to Obama.

Yeah I'm really not keen on this whole "what about the hunters" line of argument regarding guns, partially because I think hunting is inherently barbaric and partially because it opens the doors for this sort of violence.

I'm okay with hunting for food purposes, but beyond that, I'm not supportive of it, either. And if somebody checks in a gun before flying across multiple states, hunting is not going to be the first thing I'd assume they'll be doing. Maybe there is somebody out there who does that, I dunno, but it seems an awful long way to go for that particular activity, especially if you live in an area where you can hunt pretty openly already.
 
Well, I'm certainly in favor of making things as difficult as possible on gun owners.

Alas... If we can have a special baggage claim section for pets and odd sized luggage, we can certainly include bags with fucking guns in that section.

Can't disagree with you on this at all.

If the guy were planning to hunt, he could've just stayed in Alaska. Why would somebody fly through multiple states just to go hunting?

Easy: The animals that are in Alaska may not be in inner-city Los Angeles. What if someone wants to go on a hunting trip but they live in a city? They want to get away to Alaska, part of which is to go hunting. Are they supposed to buy/rent a new gun when they get there? Might be the easier option, but is that even legal? I'm sure there are other answers, but the easiest answer is: Bring their own gun with them.

Ah, got it, okay, thanks for clearing that up. Still seems odd to me, though.

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I'm okay with hunting for food purposes, but beyond that, I'm not supportive of it, either. And if somebody checks in a gun before flying across multiple states, hunting is not going to be the first thing I'd assume they'll be doing. Maybe there is somebody out there who does that, I dunno, but it seems an awful long way to go for that particular activity, especially if you live in an area where you can hunt pretty openly already.

You can bring almost anything on a plane if you CHECK it. You can carry on almost nothing. The odd thing is, though, you HAVE to carry-on Lithium batteries. Strange.

Anyways, I always bring this up when this kind of conversation happens, but yeah, I brought a full suit of armor and a sword back from Japan with me. Not even the smallest issue.

***

I just flew to Indiana with Travis and there was a guy about to get on the bus in front of us to the airport. He had a gun with him, clearly a rifle of some kind. My one and only thought was, "Wonder where he's going hunting." I just can't imagine for what other purpose (beyond a nefarious one) you'd bring a gun with you on a trip. PLENTY of people go on hunting trips. I have no idea why that would be strange....if it's your hobby you can easily build a vacation around it. As this election has established: The majority of us don't live in middle America.
 
Easy: The animals that are in Alaska may not be in inner-city Los Angeles. What if someone wants to go on a hunting trip but they live in a city? They want to get away to Alaska, part of which is to go hunting. Are they supposed to buy/rent a new gun when they get there? Might be the easier option, but is that even legal? I'm sure there are other answers, but the easiest answer is: Bring their own gun with them.

Aren't there places closer by where they can travel to hunt? There's wooded areas in California, aren't there?

(But like you said, the animals they're looking to hunt might be an issue, so never mind that.)

I know people take hunting trips, of course, I've just seriously never heard of anyone flying anywhere to do so before. And if somebody brings a gun to an airport, I'm going to be too nervous to assume any good intentions (even if they do have them), simply because of all the mass shootings we've had in recent years. Today just further proved why I would feel that way.

And in this guy's case, he was coming from Alaska, where there's all sorts of opportunity to hunt, so with him, I wouldn't have assumed "hunting trip".
 
Not all animals live in the same parts of the country. I mean, I don't know what one hunts in Florida (deer? I dunno.), that doesn't mean that one wouldn't leave Alaska to hunt somewhere else. I'm really surprised that the idea of flying somewhere to hunt is so foreign.

People fly places to do particular kinds of fishing, so why not fly somewhere to hunt a particular animal?
 
I get that people go on hunting trips. I have hunters in my family. I just didn't think retrieving the checked weapons was just as easy as grabbing your underwear.

No, I totally understand where you're coming from. I was only speaking to the bafflement at being able to take a gun on a plane at all. I would think at this point it would be more difficult to retrieve, but the thing is, *most* people aren't up to no good when it comes to guns, it would suck to seriously inconvenience someone who's' on a trip. At least up to this point, now once again one terrible person has gone out of their way to make sure that we all know that something that's been so commonplace up to this point to have gone unnoticed is no longer a safe thing to do. But I have no hope for any legislation to address this at this point.
Not all animals live in the same parts of the country. I mean, I don't know what one hunts in Florida (deer? I dunno.), that doesn't mean that one wouldn't leave Alaska to hunt somewhere else. I'm really surprised that the idea of flying somewhere to hunt is so foreign.

People fly places to do particular kinds of fishing, so why not fly somewhere to hunt a particular animal?

I know, I'm really confused as to why this is so hard to grasp....Anyways, I'm not going to continue to harp on about it. It's a theoretical that doesn't even play into this, I was only addressing the apparent absurdity at being allowed to bring a gun on a plane in the first place. Headache has pointed out a quick easy fix to this situation, but again, probably won't get fixed...:\
 
I get that people go on hunting trips. I have hunters in my family. I just didn't think retrieving the checked weapons was just as easy as grabbing your underwear.


If we had a reasonable president coming in, we'd have to oh I don't know check ID to check in and pickup... but instead we'll probably get a tweet about how more guns should be on planes.


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By way of example, my parents imported a Napoleon-era antique gun which belonged to my grandmother in Europe. It took years to get the proper paperwork to remove a cultural artifact from a country, a lot of red tape, fines, etc. They fly with it to Pearson (Toronto), as checked luggage. It came in an antique-ish like case. They are then brought in to customs which refused to release the gun to them because it was not properly locked/secured in a gun carrying case and you can't carry guns around the airport that are outside of the locked case. Now obviously this thing used gunpowder and wasn't usable in the first place but they still spent nearly 6 hours before they were allowed to leave the airport with it.

God bless America, though.
 
By way of example, my parents imported a Napoleon-era antique gun which belonged to my grandmother in Europe. It took years to get the proper paperwork to remove a cultural artifact from a country, a lot of red tape, fines, etc. They fly with it to Pearson (Toronto), as checked luggage. It came in an antique-ish like case. They are then brought in to customs which refused to release the gun to them because it was not properly locked/secured in a gun carrying case and you can't carry guns around the airport that are outside of the locked case. Now obviously this thing used gunpowder and wasn't usable in the first place but they still spent nearly 6 hours before they were allowed to leave the airport with it.

God bless America, though.
That's a little much, but you're not going to have much go wrong with that, either.
 
i'm of course incredibly sad for the families of the deceased and those who suffered today.

but, honestly, there are things we can do about things like this, but we have a certain population that refuses to take any direct action to combat gun violence and increase mental health. the state of Florida voted for things like this to continue to happen, or at least to not work on addressing conditions that make incidents like this happen in the first place. of course horrible gun tragedies occur in all countries (Norway), but the frequency and sameness of all these shootings indicates to me that we could make it a much rarer event if we had the political will to do so.
 
LAST SUMMER, THE FLORIDA TERRORIST SHOOTER WALKED INTO AN FBI OFFICE AND TRIED TO TURN HIMSELF IN, TELLING THEM ABOUT THE VOICES IN HIS HEAD DEMANDING HE JOIN ISIS.

After local police investigated him, he was committed to a psychiatric facility two months ago. He was released and his firearm returned to him.
How many warning signs, red flags and alarm bells does the FBI need to recognize that someone poses a danger, deserves ongoing scrutiny and shouldn't be allowed to possess — let alone fly — with weapons and ammunition?

Remember the warnings the FBI received on the other terrorists and did not follow up or continue monitoring?
 
LAST SUMMER, THE FLORIDA TERRORIST SHOOTER WALKED INTO AN FBI OFFICE AND TRIED TO TURN HIMSELF IN, TELLING THEM ABOUT THE VOICES IN HIS HEAD DEMANDING HE JOIN ISIS.



After local police investigated him, he was committed to a psychiatric facility two months ago. He was released and his firearm returned to him.

How many warning signs, red flags and alarm bells does the FBI need to recognize that someone poses a danger, deserves ongoing scrutiny and shouldn't be allowed to possess — let alone fly — with weapons and ammunition?



Remember the warnings the FBI received on the other terrorists and did not follow up or continue monitoring?


It seems like the FBI did their part, the Alaskan mental health system and our lax gun laws failed us.


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LAST SUMMER, THE FLORIDA TERRORIST SHOOTER WALKED INTO AN FBI OFFICE AND TRIED TO TURN HIMSELF IN, TELLING THEM ABOUT THE VOICES IN HIS HEAD DEMANDING HE JOIN ISIS.



After local police investigated him, he was committed to a psychiatric facility two months ago. He was released and his firearm returned to him.

You should take this up with the NRA.
 
The following is either correct
or fake news
or something else

I do think the shooters objective was terror.



Airport Shooter Converted to Islam, Identified as Aashiq Hammad Years Before Joining Army - Judicial Watch
www.judicialwatch.org

JANUARY 10, 2017

The Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooter is a Muslim convert who years before joining the U.S. Army took on an Islamic name (Aashiq Hammad), downloaded terrorist propaganda and recorded Islamic religious music online, according to public records dug up by the investigative news site of an award-winning, California journalist. This is pertinent information that the Obama administration apparently wants to keep quiet, bringing up memories of the Benghazi cover up, in which the president and his cohorts knowingly lied to conceal that Islamic terrorists attacked the U.S. Special Mission in Libya.

Information is slowly trickling out that links the Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooter to radical Islam while the official story from authorities is that the gunman is a mentally ill, Hispanic Army veteran named Esteban Santiago that became unhinged after a tour in Iraq. Only one mainstream media outlet mentions the possibility of Santiago’s “jihadist identity,” burying it in a piece about New York possibly being his initial target. A paragraph deep in the story mentions that investigators recovered Santiago’s computer from a pawn shop and the FBI is examining it to determine whether he created a “jihadist identity for himself using the name Aashiq Hammad…” The reset of the traditional mainstream media coverage promotes the government rhetoric that omits any ties to terrorism even though early on a photo surfaced of Santiago making an ISIS salute while wearing a keffiyeh, a Palestinian Arab scarf.

The public records uncovered in the days after the massacre suggest Santiago (Hammad) is a radical Islamic terrorist that’s seriously committed to Islam. Besides taking on a Muslim name, he recorded three Islamic religious songs, including the Muslim declaration faith (“there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger”) known as the Shahada. He also posted a thread about downloading propaganda videos from Islamic terrorists on a weapons and explosives forum. The investigative news site that unearthed this disturbing information connected the dots between Santiago, who is of Puerto Rican descent, and Hammad, an identity he created in 2007.

This week a prominent Ft. Lauderdale businessman and longtime resident addressed a letter to the city’s mayor and commissioners blasting county and federal officials for covering up that “Aashiq Hammad, not Esteban Santiago, attacked our city and county.” The businessman, respected Ft. Lauderdale real estate entrepreneur Jim Morlock, specifically names Broward County’s elected sheriff Scott Israel, Florida senator Bill Nelson, the first to identify Santiago as the shooter on national television, and congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, ousted last summer as Democratic National Committee (DNC) chair over a scandalous plot to damage Bernie Sanders during the primary.

“Since when does a US Senator (Bill Nelson), not law enforcement, be the one to so quickly release this terrorist’s Hispanic name but nothing about his more relevant Islamic background?” the letter asks. Obama must have told Sen. Nelson to keep this from looking like a Muslim Terrorist attack during the last 12 days of his watch. Bad for his legacy.” Morlock goes on to state that it’s “better to portray this atrocity as white Hispanic Alaskan mental Iraq war vet gun violence.” The real estate entrepreneur proceeds to reveal that Santiago lives in walking distance to the only mosque in Alaska, was radicalized before he entered the military and was knowingly allowed to serve despite his Islamic sympathies thanks to “Obama’s PC military.”

The letter poses interesting questions, including why this Muslim terrorist chose Ft. Lauderdale out of all the nation’s airports and who Santiago knows in Broward county, which has a large and growing Islamic community. In 2015 Judicial Watch obtained records from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) that show and Al Qaeda terrorist who helped plan several U.S. attacks lived in Broward County and graduated from the local community college with a degree in computer engineering. His name is Adnan G. El Shukrijumah, but he also had a Hispanic identity, Javier Robles, and for years he appeared on the FBI’s most wanted list. Back in 2012 Judicial Watch reported on a terrorist front group’s demands that Broward County public schools close twice a year to celebrate Islamic holy days, illustrating the influence that Muslims have in the region.
 
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The following is either correct
or fake news
or something else

I do think the shooters objective was terror.



Airport Shooter Converted to Islam, Identified as Aashiq Hammad Years Before Joining Army - Judicial Watch
www.judicialwatch.org

This is pertinent information that the Obama administration apparently wants to keep quiet, bringing up memories of the Benghazi cover up, in which the president and his cohorts knowingly lied to conceal that Islamic terrorists attacked the U.S. Special Mission in Libya.

The businessman, respected Ft. Lauderdale real estate entrepreneur Jim Morlock, specifically names Broward County’s elected sheriff Scott Israel, Florida senator Bill Nelson, the first to identify Santiago as the shooter on national television, and congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, ousted last summer as Democratic National Committee (DNC) chair over a scandalous plot to damage Bernie Sanders during the primary.

“Since when does a US Senator (Bill Nelson), not law enforcement, be the one to so quickly release this terrorist’s Hispanic name but nothing about his more relevant Islamic background?” the letter asks. Obama must have told Sen. Nelson to keep this from looking like a Muslim Terrorist attack during the last 12 days of his watch. Bad for his legacy.” Morlock goes on to state that it’s “better to portray this atrocity as white Hispanic Alaskan mental Iraq war vet gun violence.” The real estate entrepreneur proceeds to reveal that Santiago lives in walking distance to the only mosque in Alaska, was radicalized before he entered the military and was knowingly allowed to serve despite his Islamic sympathies thanks to “Obama’s PC military.”

Back in 2012 Judicial Watch reported on a terrorist front group’s demands that Broward County public schools close twice a year to celebrate Islamic holy days, illustrating the influence that Muslims have in the region.


Sounds like a real credible source...


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You should take this up with the NRA.


What does the NRA have to do with this?

It was the FBI. Can we not agree on that as a fact?
No problem discussing the issue on whether people should have the right to bear arms, but that is not the point here.

Like in the other cases of terrorism the FBI did not follow through. They dropped the ball. The Russians warned hem about the Boston bombers.
 
What does the NRA have to do with this?



It was the FBI. Can we not agree on that as a fact?





Like in the other cases of terrorism the FBI did not follow through. They dropped the ball. The Russians warned hem about the Boston bombers.


You stated "the gun was returned to him". Why? Because the NRA has removed as many common sense laws as they can.

Do you realize how many suspects the FBI has on their radar? They turned him over to the local authorities, who admitted him, the hospital somehow found him fit and the NRA got their wish of another person with mental issues having a gun.



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What does the NRA have to do with this?

It was the FBI. Can we not agree on that as a fact?
No problem discussing the issue on whether people should have the right to bear arms, but that is not the point here.

Like in the other cases of terrorism the FBI did not follow through. They dropped the ball. The Russians warned hem about the Boston bombers.

because the NRA has over and over again lobbied against sane and rational gun control - things that a super majority of Americans believe in - in the interest of profit.

that's why.

because the NRA has fought against preventing suspected terrorists from buying a gun. so even if the FBI had thought this guy was radicalized (btw... he wasn't. he's a kook who needed psychiatric help... which the FBI sought to get him, actually), they couldn't have prevented him from purchasing a gun.

that's kinda why, too.
 
Huh, I wonder what national event nearby to Canada could possibly have spurred on such a hateful act as this...
 
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