ongoing mass shootings thread

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Irvine511

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Yet another horrible incident. It seems there were failures on multiple levels here (based on initial reports). While I do support some gun control reforms - we really need to do a better job in our society of discovering and treating those with mental health issues.
 
Yet another horrible incident. It seems there were failures on multiple levels here (based on initial reports). While I do support some gun control reforms - we really need to do a better job in our society of discovering and treating those with mental health issues.

Yet we do neither! Huzzah!

USA! USA! USA!

Fuck.
 
Well if EVERYONE was walking around with AR-15s slung over their backs shootings like this wouldn't happen......
 
Yet another horrible incident. It seems there were failures on multiple levels here (based on initial reports). While I do support some gun control reforms - we really need to do a better job in our society of discovering and treating those with mental health issues.

I'd love to see society be kinder to those with mental health problems, but that won't happen tomorrow. Too many people are judgmental, even toward those with general depression and anxiety, which are like the common cold of mental health.

In the meantime, we need gun control reform. But good luck with that when the gun lobbyists have a lot of influence in DC.
 
Yet another horrible incident. It seems there were failures on multiple levels here (based on initial reports). While I do support some gun control reforms - we really need to do a better job in our society of discovering and treating those with mental health issues.



A universal single payer health care system might be a great start.
 
In the meantime, we need gun control reform.
True, but it seems he initiated the attack with a simple shotgun - a weapon unlikely to ever get banned. He then took the weapons of the guards.

So it seems that stricter gun control would not have helped much in this case.

However, the news reports that there was a history of mental illness...
 
A universal single payer health care system might be a great start.

I'm actually for universal and FREE healthcare. Another hybrid quasi capitalist/governmental overly regulated soup sandwich is not the answer.
 
As God tweeted today: "Mass shootings are a small price to pay for the freedom to carry out mass shootings."

:sigh:
 
True, but it seems he initiated the attack with a simple shotgun - a weapon unlikely to ever get banned. He then took the weapons of the guards.

So it seems that stricter gun control would not have helped much in this case.

However, the news reports that there was a history of mental illness...

Perhaps. But I don't know how we can tackle the mental health problem here. There's a lot of factors to that, and sadly, there will be more mass shootings before mental health is properly treated in this country.
 
Perhaps. But I don't know how we can tackle the mental health problem here. There's a lot of factors to that, and sadly, there will be more mass shootings before mental health is properly treated in this country.

It looks like Video Games are going to get the blame for this one - instead of the mishandling of his mental issues...
 
I never have, and never will, buy the video game or violent music argument.

There are millions upon millions of games sold around the world every year. So while mass shootings happen everywhere, why is it that this seems to be a U.S.-centric issue? There is more at play here besides video games.
 
me either.

Foreigners say they are no longer surprised at U.S. gun violence

By Anthony Faiola and Karla Adam, Updated: Tuesday, September 17, 1:02 PM

LONDON — Jimmy Davis, a 41-year-old London disc jockey, was saddened when he heard about the latest mass shooting in the United States. But like much of the world after the attack at Washington’s Navy Yard on Monday, he was no longer shocked.

The United States is a place where “buying guns is like buying sweets from a sweet shop — it’s no problem,” Davis said Tuesday on a busy shopping street in southwest London. “So when we hear there are shootings like this in America, we are not really shocked. Know what I mean?”

That reaction — of horror, but not surprise — was echoed by bystanders and in other places around the world following the deadly attack. As seen from abroad, the mass shooting, apparently by a lone gunman, appeared part of a new American normal, a byproduct of a treasured gun culture that largely mystifies those living beyond U.S. borders.

Foreigners are aware of the grim list of the sites of recent U.S. massacres: Virginia Tech; Fort Hood, Tex.; Aurora, Colo.; Oak Creek, Wis.; Newtown, Conn. — and now, Washington, D.C. And with gun laws little changed after the earlier killings, many said they fully expect the list to grow.

In China, people commenting on Weibo, a local version of Twitter, reiterated the widespread international view of U.S. gun laws as quixotic and potentially lethal.

“It's time [for the U.S.] to control guns,” posted one user.

“It's a cost of having no gun control!” posted another.

In some quarters, such as India, the shooting spree by yet another gunman in the United States failed to generate big headlines. In some European countries, by contrast, the news dominated front pages and, for a time, TV networks and Internet chatter.

The Navy Yard attack sparked a particularly strong response in Britain, which strictly tightened gun-control measures after its own mass shootings in the 1980s and ’90s. Americans, many here argued Tuesday, have yet to learn the lessons that have been absorbed by this nation of 63 million, where more than 200,000 guns and 700 tons of ammunition have been taken off the streets over the past 15 years. In urban areas, offenders in search of firearms now regularly resort to rebuilt antique weapons, homemade bullets and even illicit “rent-a-gun” schemes.

“America’s gun disease diminishes its soft power,” opined Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland. “It makes the country seem less like a model and more like a basket case, afflicted by a pathology other nations strive to avoid. When similar gun massacres have struck elsewhere — including in Britain — lawmakers have acted swiftly to tighten controls, watching as the gun crime statistics then fell.”

In Moscow, the shooting was seen through the prism of international relations and domestic politics. Alexei Pushkov, head of the foreign affairs committee of the lower house of the Russian parliament, appeared to use it to fan the flames of a transatlantic debate that ignited after President Vladimir Putin slammed the notion of American “exceptionalism” in a recent New York Times opinion piece.

“A new shootout at Navy headquarters in Washington — a lone gunman and 7 corpses. Nobody’s even surprised anymore. A clear confirmation of American exceptionalism,” Pushkov tweeted before the official death toll had been announced.

The U.S. Embassy in Moscow tweeted in response: “What’s exceptionalism got to do with it? Why use a tragedy to score political points?”

It’s not as if Russians are unfamiliar with violence. Three police officers were killed and six others wounded in separate bombings Monday in the southern regions of Ingushetia and Chechnya. Pushkov didn’t tweet about that, but he did note Tuesday that 35 people had been killed in violence in Iraq.

In Britain, Foreign Secretary William Hague offered condolences to relatives and friends of the victims, while Prime Minister David Cameron tweeted: “Tragic events at the Washington Navy Yard. My thoughts and prayers are with those who have lost loved ones.”

Elsewhere, pundits reflected on the implications of the latest attack for President Obama, and the likelihood of yet another bruising battle over curbing guns in America.

“The episode arrives at a particularly difficult moment for Obama,” Antonio Cano wrote in a news analysis for Spain’s El Pais. “The crisis in Syria, in which he has shown signs of indecision and weakness, has damaged his popularity. The president is in urgent need of a triumph to win back confidence.”

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sent a letter to Obama on behalf of the Israeli people expressing “heartfelt condolences” and describing the attack as a “heinous crime.”

The shooting was not big news in Israel, where armed security guards on school trips and soldiers with rifles commuting on city buses are common sights. In May, when a man shot dead four people at a bank, then turned the gun on himself, Israeli media labeled the shooter “an American-style lone gunman.”

In Lebanon, news of the killings was overshadowed by the diplomatic push for Syria to relinquish its chemical weapons, which has eased concerns of a U.S. military strike on Damascus and the possible ramifications of such a strike for its smaller neighbor.

Najib Mitri, a prominent Lebanese blogger, said there was relief among Arabs that the shooter did not have a connection to the Middle East.

“What is happening in the area here is enough to tarnish our reputations already — the violence, the massacres. It’s a relief that this is not another opportunity to label us this way,” he said.

While Lebanon is no stranger to gun violence, plagued by corruption and groups that have not disarmed since the Lebanese civil war, the fact that a country like the United States was unable to prevent a gunman from breaching security at a naval base was unsettling, Mitri he said. He predicted a bolstered sense of national unity in the aftermath of the killings — something he said happened in Lebanon after recent bombings in southern Beirut and the northern city of Tripoli.

“The more you have weapons, the more you have crime,” Mitri said. “When something like this happens in your country, you stop looking at the political picture, and all that matters is that it needs to be stopped.”

Foreigners say they are no longer surprised by U.S. gun violence - The Washington Post
 
Yeah, to be honest, that is the general response I hear around here as well.

It's not like it can't be expected, with the current US Gun policies.
 
I never have, and never will, buy the video game or violent music argument.

There are millions upon millions of games sold around the world every year. So while mass shootings happen everywhere, why is it that this seems to be a U.S.-centric issue? There is more at play here besides video games.

Agreed, if I were American I would find this excuse to be insulting, tbh.
 
Perhaps this thread should be called the Ongoing exploitation of tragedies to advance old political agendas.

More gun control, nationalized health care and even sequester budget cuts have all been tied to this event. Unfortunately, these claims are not supported by the facts of this incident.

The AR-15 was the first political target. Despite being functionally the same as most rifles, the AR-15 gets elevated as a causal factor in this incident. Now, once some facts are examined, it appears Aaron Alexis had only a shotgun. And it is not clear if he even fired the shotgun. Alexis stole weapons (handguns) from guards at the Navy Yard and used those in his attack. An AR-15 was never in the equation.

Of course, when discussion the assault rifles, no one ever mentions the 1.5 to 3.2 Million AR-15s (estimates of the number of AR-15s in the US vary greatly) that have not and never been used in a crime. If something is used lawfully on such a wide scale basis, it cannot inherently be the cause of a problem.

Healthcare was next on the political agenda with claims that the absence of mental health was a causal factor in the incident. Facts now show that not only did Aaron Alexis have access to mental health care, he utilized it. Availability and treatment did not prevent this tragedy.

There are plenty of different factors that contributed to this event and as long as we stick to a couple of broad political brush strokes, we will never find a solution to this problem.
 
people do say this all the time. but there is a baffling (to me) gun culture in the US, and, in my opinion, a warped understanding of what we mean by the word "freedom."

the vast majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding. the vast majority of mentally ill people do not go on shooting rampages.

yet this happens here. frequently.

i'm almost done reading Freedom, and some of this makes sense:

“It’s all circling around the same problem of personal liberties,” Walter said. “People came to this country for either money or freedom. If you don’t have money, you cling to your freedoms all the more angrily. Even if smoking kills you, even if you can’t afford to feed your kids, even if your kids are getting shot down by maniacs with assault rifles. You may be poor, but the one thing nobody can take away from you is the freedom to fuck up your life whatever way you want to.”
― Jonathan Franzen, Freedom
 
So basically do nothing. We've done that and it's working out great.

I've accepted that this is a way of life here in the states. Even the simplist most common sense regulations are fought as some crime against liberty.

And yet I kind of see the Russian side/shot at us....we always hear in media how great we are. Yet these types of killings happen over and over.

While there are very few places, if any I'd trade to live, it definitely is a black eye
 
Perhaps this thread should be called the Ongoing exploitation of tragedies to advance old political agendas.

More gun control, nationalized health care and even sequester budget cuts have all been tied to this event. Unfortunately, these claims are not supported by the facts of this incident.

The AR-15 was the first political target. Despite being functionally the same as most rifles, the AR-15 gets elevated as a causal factor in this incident. Now, once some facts are examined, it appears Aaron Alexis had only a shotgun. And it is not clear if he even fired the shotgun. Alexis stole weapons (handguns) from guards at the Navy Yard and used those in his attack. An AR-15 was never in the equation.

Of course, when discussion the assault rifles, no one ever mentions the 1.5 to 3.2 Million AR-15s (estimates of the number of AR-15s in the US vary greatly) that have not and never been used in a crime. If something is used lawfully on such a wide scale basis, it cannot inherently be the cause of a problem.

Healthcare was next on the political agenda with claims that the absence of mental health was a causal factor in the incident. Facts now show that not only did Aaron Alexis have access to mental health care, he utilized it. Availability and treatment did not prevent this tragedy.

There are plenty of different factors that contributed to this event and as long as we stick to a couple of broad political brush strokes, we will never find a solution to this problem.



and yet a mentally ill person shot a bunch of people a few miles from where i live with a variety of weapons. he has a long record of mental illness as well as criminal issues related to gun crimes.

but mental health and guns and the enforcement of gun laws aren't the issue here.

what, pray tell, is?
 
mental health and guns

Some how - some way - we have to keep this deadly combination from occurring.

If you are a gun enthusiast, why in the world would you not want to do everything you can to prevent this marriage? Almost every one of the atrocities is committed by a mentally sick man with a gun. If you don't want the government to take your guns, then you should support the efforts to make certain that guns do not fall into the hands of the mentally ill.

Background checks and mental health evaluations must be a part of the equation.
 
Notable pompous asshole Pierce Morgan last night used the shooting to go on a rant about how evil and horrible AR-15's are. He had a psychiatrist and was basically baiting the guy trying to get him to say its the guns that are making these things happen. And thats not what the guy was saying at all. He was saying the mental health system is to blame. And then Morgan repeatedly kept twisting his words and rephrasing the questions to get him to say what he wanted to say. It was really pathetic to watch.

Oh and wait, this guy didn't use an AR-15? He used a shotgun?? :reject: Shit are shotguns even legal in DC? that's surprising.
 
Perhaps this thread should be called the Ongoing exploitation of tragedies to advance old political agendas.
Most of the people making this claim exploited the "debt crisis" to advance the political agenda of "prevent Barack Obama's re-election at all costs." So forgive me if I'm relatively dismissive of them on face value.
 
Sorry but this "assault weapon" language is all bullshit. It's made up to demonize scary-looking guns that have the same function and are NO MORE lethal than non-"assault weapons." Not to mention that they are used the LEAST in these mass shootings.

EuoUP.jpg

assaultweaponcomparison1.jpeg



I think it's just because the scary-looking guns are BLACK , isn't it???
 
This guy used a shotgun so all the other shootings never happened. Sure. Whatever. Okay, guys. Wrap it up and go home ALL THE WEAPONS ARE GOOD.
 
Notable pompous asshole Pierce Morgan last night used the shooting to go on a rant about how evil and horrible AR-15's are. He had a psychiatrist and was basically baiting the guy trying to get him to say its the guns that are making these things happen. And thats not what the guy was saying at all. He was saying the mental health system is to blame. And then Morgan repeatedly kept twisting his words and rephrasing the questions to get him to say what he wanted to say. It was really pathetic to watch.

Oh and wait, this guy didn't use an AR-15? He used a shotgun?? :reject: Shit are shotguns even legal in DC? that's surprising.


I agree that Piers Morgan is an idiot.
 
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