Ongoing Mass Shooting Thread #3... that's right, a third thread. Because 'Murica.

[Nick66]

Well put.

And while I was a prosecutor I did a thankless tour in DV court, and I absolutely agree that waiting periods are helpful in keeping domestic violence from turning deadly.

The only thing I'll add is, I think if you're going to ask law abiding gun owners to give up their weapons, even so-called "assault weapons", it would go a long way if you could explain to them how doing so will actually save lives. And that you're doing everything else you can do keep schools safe while you're asking them to give up their weapons. "If it saves one life it's worth it" sounds good rhetorically, but I don't think it's particularly persuasive, since there are many things we could do to save lives that would not necessarily involve gun control. Allowing law enforcement to search students, their lockers and their phones while on school property on mere suspcion would probably save lives also. How many students would be game for that?

This is not to say I disagree with your premise. In general I agree that what we can do within the limits of the Constitution (post-Heller), we should. But I also think we need to be honest about how effective those measures can really be.

I find your writing thoughtful & persuasive.

 

[Wide Awake n AZ]

I appreciate the compliment, and to answer your concern...it isn't a concern to the end goal if the numbers are there.


If the majority of the people vote for gun restrictions, and they are constitutionally sound, no one has to persuade the gun owner who owns an illegal gun. It is then up to them to decide if they want to be a law-abiding citizen or a criminal. Like every law that makes something once legal illegal.


Illegal search and seizure is, of course, illegal. Students are not afforded those protections, and locker searches have always been a part of school. Except more and more schools simply don't have lockers. My kid carries a backpack of insane heft to her size, and she exists much like an ant carrying loads in excess of body weight. Phones? Now you are entering into personal property with discussion that can fall into protected discussion. Either ban them or ban their use on campus if that is a fear, but that doesn't get to the actual issue of discovering plots. So it is pointless and would be punitive with no real result, and the loss of a fair amount of combined benefit, especially in the coordination of pickup and drop-off and increasing school activity participation in districts that have largely gone away from the "neighborhood" concept into magnet and/or open-district setups.


Schools have to balance their own rights vs wants, consider the goal of education, and the goal of making it something the marginal student wants to continue to pursue, while also creating an environment that is fertile for learning. Turing a school into a prison dissuades the student from feeling open, or that administration and the teachers are on their side. The school has an objective, and has to balance what it can do with what it should do to maintain safety. That "need" balance, rather than a "want", is not really present in the gun control argument, because there is no compulsory gun ownership, no required need for each person to defend, and no added benefit to the growth of the society and infrastructure for a clip to have 33 rather than 12 spots for bullets. If an aggression is present that can be fought by the citizenry, we can certainly enact legislation to get AR's in every adult hand.


As for the idea that there are many things we could do to save lives, we do, by and large, have the same balance that gun control could afford, balancing need vs want. We have speed limits, car safety requirements for manufacturers, drunk driving laws, building code, etc, etc. We mitigate without strangling effectiveness or desire to participate, by and large, and anywhere we have it wrong, we can push our representatives to change federal law, or use the citizens initiative for state/local laws that do not fall under the supremacy clause.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The whole "we have a gun culture" argument is a pile of horseshit spewed by people who've run out of things to say.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

David Hogg tweeted at John McCain asking him why he takes so much money from the NRA. Doubt he'll ever answer that. Almost 8 million.

 

[BVS]

The whole "we have a gun culture" argument is a pile of horseshit spewed by people who've run out of things to say.

You mean people say “we have a gun culture” as a defense not to do anything?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You mean people say “we have a gun culture” as a defense not to do anything?

Shocking I know

 

[BVS]

Shocking I know

I mean we do have a gun culture, but that IS part of the problem.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I mean we do have a gun culture, but that IS part of the problem.

We don't.

3% of the population own half the guns.

That's not a gun culture. That's horse shit sold by the NRA and such as an excuse as to why this shit happens here.

The overwhelming majority of Americans support gun control. This is a problem that can be solved, once we get past horse shit excuses such as "well we have a gun culture."


These kids are proving that the old "well, there's nothing we can do" attitude is wrong. We can and we will.

 

[BVS]

We don't.

3% of the population own half the guns.

That's not a gun culture. That's horse shit sold by the NRA and such as an excuse as to why this shit happens here.

The overwhelming majority of Americans support gun control. This is a problem that can be solved, once we get past horse shit excuses such as "well we have a gun culture."


These kids are proving that the old "well, there's nothing we can do" attitude is wrong. We can and we will.

I don’t mean a gun society. Culture isn’t defined by size, every company has their own defined office culture. We have a group of people that define themselves by gun ownership. Some own them as a necessity of being a rancher, some out of self defense, but then there’s that group that define themselves by guns rather than just seeing them as a necessary evil. That is what I mean by a gun culture, and they are so defined by guns that even the most common sense measures are an attack on them.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I don’t mean a gun society. Culture isn’t defined by size, every company has their own defined office culture. We have a group of people that define themselves by gun ownership. Some own them as a necessity of being a rancher, some out of self defense, but then there’s that group that define themselves by guns rather than just seeing them as a necessary evil. That is what I mean by a gun culture, and they are so defined by guns that even the most common sense measures are an attack on them.

Yes, but that group is incredibly small. The term is often used as to why change can't occur, and that sentiment is horse shit.

The people who love their guns may reeeeally love their guns, but it's a small fraction of the overall population and does not reflect the sentiment of the general population.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Ted Nugent, YOU have no soul.
Is he on the board of directors of the NRA? If so, deplorable.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Shots fired at YouTube HQ

 

[corianderstem]

Must be Tuesday.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

They're saying on NBC that it was a female shooter. Highly unusual. She's apparently dead now, though, and they seem to think she was working alone.

 

[Danny Boy]

Was she white? I need to know if she was a terrorist or just a troubled individual.

 

[Hewson]

They're saying on NBC that it was a female shooter. Highly unusual. .

Must be a dude with long hair and a baby face that they have mistaken for female.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The man who was wounded was allegedly her boyfriend.

I guess some outlets were reporting that she was wearing a headscarf. Remains to be seen if that's true. It seems it was a domestic violence situation, so I don't see why that's even relevant.

 

[Irvine511]

I’m so glad she had easy access to firearms. #thepriceoffreedom

 

[Nick66]

Says she was a big animal rights person and PETA supporter.

Human rights and treating people ethically? Not so much.

 

[Axver]

Australia: you go to your ex's work and shout at them.

America: you go to your ex's work and shoot at them.

Hey, it's just one altered vowel, what's the big deal?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Australia: you go to your ex's work and shout at them.

America: you go to your ex's work and shoot at them.

Hey, it's just one altered vowel, what's the big deal?

You don't understand our culture, maaaaaaaaaaan

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So it turns out she was just angry at YouTube about her videos. Didn't know any of the people she shot. Seems like a perfectly rational response to such an issue

 

[Hewson]

Australia: you go to your ex's work and shout at them.

America: you go to your ex's work and shoot at them.

Hey, it's just one altered vowel, what's the big deal?

Apparently not a domestic incident, not her ex boyfriend that she shot.

Looks more like she was a disgruntled youtuber unhappy that they removed/censored some of her videos and stopped paying her for stuff.

 

[Hewson]

So it turns out she was just angry at YouTube about her videos. Didn't know any of the people she shot. Seems like a perfectly rational response to such an issue

Jeez you beat me to it by like 4 seconds.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Apparently not a domestic incident, not her ex boyfriend that she shot.

Looks more like she was a disgruntled youtuber unhappy that they removed/censored some of her videos and stopped paying her for stuff.

God bless America

 

[Nick66]

You mean the initial reports about the boyfriend and head scarf were wrong? Shocker.

 

[BEAL]

We just need to solve anger and we’ll be fine

 

[Irvine511]

Sounds like she was bullied.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

What I want to know if why there aren't drones with guns at the door? I mean is Google Skynet or what?

 

[Nick66]

Sounds like she was bullied.

By who?