Ongoing Mass Shooting Thread #3... that's right, a third thread. Because 'Murica. - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-30-2018, 03:36 PM   #181
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat...
Posts: 6,663
Local Time: 07:45 PM
Well put.

And while I was a prosecutor I did a thankless tour in DV court, and I absolutely agree that waiting periods are helpful in keeping domestic violence from turning deadly.

The only thing I'll add is, I think if you're going to ask law abiding gun owners to give up their weapons, even so-called "assault weapons", it would go a long way if you could explain to them how doing so will actually save lives. And that you're doing everything else you can do keep schools safe while you're asking them to give up their weapons. "If it saves one life it's worth it" sounds good rhetorically, but I don't think it's particularly persuasive, since there are many things we could do to save lives that would not necessarily involve gun control. Allowing law enforcement to search students, their lockers and their phones while on school property on mere suspcion would probably save lives also. How many students would be game for that?

This is not to say I disagree with your premise. In general I agree that what we can do within the limits of the Constitution (post-Heller), we should. But I also think we need to be honest about how effective those measures can really be.

I find your writing thoughtful & persuasive.
__________________

Nick66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 04:27 PM   #182
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 296
Local Time: 11:45 AM
I appreciate the compliment, and to answer your concern...it isn't a concern to the end goal if the numbers are there.


If the majority of the people vote for gun restrictions, and they are constitutionally sound, no one has to persuade the gun owner who owns an illegal gun. It is then up to them to decide if they want to be a law-abiding citizen or a criminal. Like every law that makes something once legal illegal.


Illegal search and seizure is, of course, illegal. Students are not afforded those protections, and locker searches have always been a part of school. Except more and more schools simply don't have lockers. My kid carries a backpack of insane heft to her size, and she exists much like an ant carrying loads in excess of body weight. Phones? Now you are entering into personal property with discussion that can fall into protected discussion. Either ban them or ban their use on campus if that is a fear, but that doesn't get to the actual issue of discovering plots. So it is pointless and would be punitive with no real result, and the loss of a fair amount of combined benefit, especially in the coordination of pickup and drop-off and increasing school activity participation in districts that have largely gone away from the "neighborhood" concept into magnet and/or open-district setups.


Schools have to balance their own rights vs wants, consider the goal of education, and the goal of making it something the marginal student wants to continue to pursue, while also creating an environment that is fertile for learning. Turing a school into a prison dissuades the student from feeling open, or that administration and the teachers are on their side. The school has an objective, and has to balance what it can do with what it should do to maintain safety. That "need" balance, rather than a "want", is not really present in the gun control argument, because there is no compulsory gun ownership, no required need for each person to defend, and no added benefit to the growth of the society and infrastructure for a clip to have 33 rather than 12 spots for bullets. If an aggression is present that can be fought by the citizenry, we can certainly enact legislation to get AR's in every adult hand.


As for the idea that there are many things we could do to save lives, we do, by and large, have the same balance that gun control could afford, balancing need vs want. We have speed limits, car safety requirements for manufacturers, drunk driving laws, building code, etc, etc. We mitigate without strangling effectiveness or desire to participate, by and large, and anywhere we have it wrong, we can push our representatives to change federal law, or use the citizens initiative for state/local laws that do not fall under the supremacy clause.
__________________

Wide Awake n AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 06:20 PM   #183
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 62,452
Local Time: 02:45 PM
The whole "we have a gun culture" argument is a pile of horseshit spewed by people who've run out of things to say.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 07:44 PM   #184
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 25,947
Local Time: 02:45 PM
David Hogg tweeted at John McCain asking him why he takes so much money from the NRA. Doubt he'll ever answer that. Almost 8 million.

Click image for larger version

Name:	636543049478509070-021518-NRA-Contribute-ONLINE.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	98.6 KB
ID:	11856
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 08:04 PM   #185
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,165
Local Time: 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
The whole "we have a gun culture" argument is a pile of horseshit spewed by people who've run out of things to say.


You mean people say “we have a gun culture” as a defense not to do anything?
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 08:06 PM   #186
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 62,452
Local Time: 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
You mean people say “we have a gun culture” as a defense not to do anything?
Shocking I know
Headache in a Suitcase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 08:08 PM   #187
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,165
Local Time: 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Shocking I know


I mean we do have a gun culture, but that IS part of the problem.
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 08:57 PM   #188
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 62,452
Local Time: 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
I mean we do have a gun culture, but that IS part of the problem.
We don't.

3% of the population own half the guns.

That's not a gun culture. That's horse shit sold by the NRA and such as an excuse as to why this shit happens here.

The overwhelming majority of Americans support gun control. This is a problem that can be solved, once we get past horse shit excuses such as "well we have a gun culture."


These kids are proving that the old "well, there's nothing we can do" attitude is wrong. We can and we will.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 09:19 PM   #189
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,165
Local Time: 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
We don't.

3% of the population own half the guns.

That's not a gun culture. That's horse shit sold by the NRA and such as an excuse as to why this shit happens here.

The overwhelming majority of Americans support gun control. This is a problem that can be solved, once we get past horse shit excuses such as "well we have a gun culture."


These kids are proving that the old "well, there's nothing we can do" attitude is wrong. We can and we will.


I don’t mean a gun society. Culture isn’t defined by size, every company has their own defined office culture. We have a group of people that define themselves by gun ownership. Some own them as a necessity of being a rancher, some out of self defense, but then there’s that group that define themselves by guns rather than just seeing them as a necessary evil. That is what I mean by a gun culture, and they are so defined by guns that even the most common sense measures are an attack on them.
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2018, 06:10 AM   #190
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 62,452
Local Time: 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
I don’t mean a gun society. Culture isn’t defined by size, every company has their own defined office culture. We have a group of people that define themselves by gun ownership. Some own them as a necessity of being a rancher, some out of self defense, but then there’s that group that define themselves by guns rather than just seeing them as a necessary evil. That is what I mean by a gun culture, and they are so defined by guns that even the most common sense measures are an attack on them.
Yes, but that group is incredibly small. The term is often used as to why change can't occur, and that sentiment is horse shit.

The people who love their guns may reeeeally love their guns, but it's a small fraction of the overall population and does not reflect the sentiment of the general population.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 06:32 AM   #191
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 25,947
Local Time: 02:45 PM
Ted Nugent, YOU have no soul.
Is he on the board of directors of the NRA? If so, deplorable.
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 03:25 PM   #192
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 62,452
Local Time: 02:45 PM
Shots fired at YouTube HQ
Headache in a Suitcase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 04:32 PM   #193
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 64,496
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Must be Tuesday.
corianderstem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 04:37 PM   #194
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,885
Local Time: 01:45 PM
They're saying on NBC that it was a female shooter. Highly unusual. She's apparently dead now, though, and they seem to think she was working alone.
Moonlit_Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 05:08 PM   #195
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Danny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up
Posts: 9,438
Local Time: 11:45 AM
Was she white? I need to know if she was a terrorist or just a troubled individual.
__________________

Danny Boy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com