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Old 12-09-2007, 09:17 AM   #16
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We didn't have a thread on the Finnish guy, did we?

Many people might have read or heard about it and thought "Oh my God", but didn't go here to type it.

And you are of course right, there is also that "Oh, another one" reaction.

I'm for stricter gun control as well, but don't think that would be going to end those shootings. As long as people are thrown into desperate situations where they see no way out, and get little help by society, because a little more free market will do it, such shootings will happen.

Finland and Germany have stricter gun controls and nevertheless we had killing sprees happening here.
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Old 12-09-2007, 12:53 PM   #17
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy


Im not saying you don't care im saying that ther eis no shock or OMG how could this happen?! its more of a 'oh another one?' shame. *carries on*

there shouldn't be ANY shootings of innocent people?

This is why gun control is absolutey necessary!
Actually, I think most people are in the 'How could this happen?' category. I don't happen to be one of them, but it doesn't mean I don't find it sad. It just means I don't have the energy to spend weeks being shocked and appalled by it. I know how it happened. It just makes me spend a lot more time around teenagers I know to be 'at risk', giving them that energy that would otherwise be wasted typing out being shocked and appalled. It's more useful.
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:28 AM   #18
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Originally posted by financeguy
These events will continue to happen until guns are much more tightly regulated in the US, that is the reality.
Unfortunately that won't happen because people are so desparate not to touch the precious U.S. constitution and the archaic "right to bear arms"......*sigh*.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:22 AM   #19
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Originally posted by AchtungBono


Unfortunately that won't happen because people are so desparate not to touch the precious U.S. constitution and the archaic "right to bear arms"......*sigh*.
And it's mainly your heroes like O'Reiley and Bush that are keeping this from happening.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:09 AM   #20
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


And it's mainly your heroes like O'Reiley and Bush that are keeping this from happening.
Yeah, it's President Bush's and Bill O'Reilly's fault that kids go and shoot up malls.

*sigh*

I agree we need deeper investigations before selling someone a gun, but what does Bill O'Reilly have to do with it? Honestly.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:30 AM   #21
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Yeah, it's President Bush's and Bill O'Reilly's fault that kids go and shoot up malls.

*sigh*

I agree we need deeper investigations before selling someone a gun, but what does Bill O'Reilly have to do with it? Honestly.
BVS did not make that direct connection, you did. All he was saying was that those two are supporters of 2nd amendment rights and pointing out that AB is a fan of them.


That aside, Britt, what you said was very powerful and true. This was so sad and tragic. I hope some day there is a shift of consciousness where people don't feel this is the only way out, that they can instead go and get the support they need.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:30 AM   #22
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Yeah, it's President Bush's and Bill O'Reilly's fault that kids go and shoot up malls.

*sigh*

I agree we need deeper investigations before selling someone a gun, but what does Bill O'Reilly have to do with it? Honestly.


At least try. Try and read what I said. AchtungBono, makes many posts singing the praises of Bush and O'Reilly, I mean almost to godly status, but then she makes the comment:

Quote:
Unfortunately that won't happen because people are so desparate not to touch the precious U.S. constitution and the archaic "right to bear arms"......*sigh*.
yet her two biggest heroes are two very outspoken NRA supporters.

I was just pointing out the irony.

Honestly.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:40 AM   #23
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So, just out of curiosity, what do all of you think should be done? I think we need extensive background checks and a waiting period, much moreso than we do now, but I certainly don't want the 2nd Amendment repealed or anything like that.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:43 AM   #24
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I think your question probably deserves another thread.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




At least try. Try and read what I said. AchtungBono, makes many posts singing the praises of Bush and O'Reilly, I mean almost to godly status, but then she makes the comment:



yet her two biggest heroes are two very outspoken NRA supporters.

I was just pointing out the irony.

Honestly.
My admiration for Bush and O'reilly doesn't contradict what I said.

The old saying that "guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people" doesn't wash anymore....because if the PEOPLE are able to get their hands on the GUNS therein lies the problem.

I stick to my conviction that the 2nd amendment must be changed in order to make it impossible for any ordinary citizen to purchase a gun.

As I've mentioned in a previous post a few months ago, Israel's gun laws are so strict that only law enforcement officials, soldiers, and residents who live in areas of risk are allowed to purchase guns....and this after a STRICT scrutiny process. What would be so terrible if the U.S. had the same laws?

Besides BVS, you mentioned in a previous post that I have a problem with the U.S. constitution - I don't actually. I'm not denying the rights and freedoms of ordinary law-abiding citizens, but I would like to make it slightly harder for a 10 year old to shoot up a school yard using his father's gun that he has in the house - don't you agree?

Also, I HATE the fact that criminals can get away with murder because of technicalities - such as evidence seized in a search without a warrant - that drives me CRAZY!

For example, the police can get a search warrant for specific areas in a suspected criminal's apartment. The criminal swears up and down that he's innocent but if by chance the police happen to discover a dead body, a smoking gun and the criminal's fingerprints in an area NOT covered by the warrant then they can't use any of that as evidence because it was obtained "illegally" and using them would violate the criminal's constitutional rights - what the hell is that??

I also have no problem at all with the laws limiting the privacy of citizens...why should I mind if the government taps my phone or watches me if I'm not doing anything wrong? I'm a law-abiding citizen and the government can't go after me just on a whim.

Actually, the government would be very BORED if they watched me.....my life is quite DULL....lol.

I hope I've made my point clearer.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
As I've mentioned in a previous post a few months ago, Israel's gun laws are so strict that only law enforcement officials, soldiers, and residents who live in areas of risk are allowed to purchase guns....and this after a STRICT scrutiny process. What would be so terrible if the U.S. had the same laws?
I think that is a bad idea. When I'm older, you can be darn sure that I'm going to own a gun to protect my family if need be.

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
but I would like to make it slightly harder for a 10 year old to shoot up a school yard using his father's gun that he has in the house - don't you agree?
This is an interesting point. There's only so much the government will ever be able to do. A lot, and I mean a lot of it is bad parenting- access to guns, raising your child in a hostile environment, belief that forcefulness (and subsequently, violence) will lead to solutions. As a criminal justice major who just took a course in crime, I learned a little about this.

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
Also, I HATE the fact that criminals can get away with murder because of technicalities - such as evidence seized in a search without a warrant - that drives me CRAZY!
Amen.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


My admiration for Bush and O'reilly doesn't contradict what I said.
No, but they contradict what you said.


Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

I stick to my conviction that the 2nd amendment must be changed in order to make it impossible for any ordinary citizen to purchase a gun.
I agree with you on gun control, I don't think there's any need for citizens to own handguns or assault rifles.

You say this, but then you say this:

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

Besides BVS, you mentioned in a previous post that I have a problem with the U.S. constitution - I don't actually. I'm not denying the rights and freedoms of ordinary law-abiding citizens, but I would like to make it slightly harder for a 10 year old to shoot up a school yard using his father's gun that he has in the house - don't you agree?
Slightly harder, or impossible? You don't seem to be consistent.

When you say things like our "precious constitution" like in other threads, it sounds very mocking. Plus you have repeatedly said we have too much freedom of speech and that's a cornerstone of our constitution, so sometimes it sounds like you aren't a big fan.


Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

Also, I HATE the fact that criminals can get away with murder because of technicalities - such as evidence seized in a search without a warrant - that drives me CRAZY!
Well without law and due process we have anarchy.

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

For example, the police can get a search warrant for specific areas in a suspected criminal's apartment. The criminal swears up and down that he's innocent but if by chance the police happen to discover a dead body, a smoking gun and the criminal's fingerprints in an area NOT covered by the warrant then they can't use any of that as evidence because it was obtained "illegally" and using them would violate the criminal's constitutional rights - what the hell is that??
Not quite. Yes there are times when technicalites will get in the way, but your example is far too vague.

Usually a search warrant is for a person's home, not just parts of the home. But if you have a warrant for a person's home and you continue to search the detached garage and find something, then you better be aware of what your warrant entails, write the warrant correctly.

Basically it just keeps searches in check, everything needs a checks and balance system.

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

I also have no problem at all with the laws limiting the privacy of citizens...why should I mind if the government taps my phone or watches me if I'm not doing anything wrong? I'm a law-abiding citizen and the government can't go after me just on a whim.
Not sure what this has to do with anything but where do you draw the line? You want the government listening to your private phone calls to your lover, do you want them watching you as you have sex with your husband?

You are missing the big picture. It's not a case of "if I'm not doing anything wrong". What if the government was taping all your calls and they happen to have a conversation of you complaining to a friend that you can't believe the president did such and such... Something happens down the line and you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and you are on trial for attacking a governmental official. Well that "innocent" taped phone call is now evidence of motive.

Now this is a highly unlikely example, but this is why we do not allow this slippery slope.
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:39 PM   #28
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The Associated Press
updated 10:33 a.m. ET, Thurs., Dec. 13, 2007

OMAHA, Neb. - The mother of the teenage gunman who killed eight people at a busy shopping mall earlier this month apologized Thursday for her son’s crime and said she did her best raising him.

“I’m sorry. I’m sorry,” Maribel Rodriguez told ABC’s “Good Morning America” when asked what she would say to the victims’ families. “I’m deeply devastated with you.”

Her son, Robert Hawkins, 19, fired more than 30 rounds inside a mall department store Dec. 5, striking 11 people. Six died where they fell, one died on the way to a hospital and another died at a hospital. Three other people were wounded, two seriously.

“If you want to hate Robert, then hate Robert. You don’t need that pain,” Rodriguez said. “You absolutely don’t need that type of pain in your heart and mind. Because it destroys your soul.”

Hawkins was a troubled teenager who spent four years in a series of treatment centers, group homes and foster care after threatening to kill his stepmother in 2002. He had recently broken up with a girlfriend and lost his job at a McDonald’s.

“He was without hope. He was without faith. He was without courage,” Rodriguez said. “Because you don’t do that to other people. You just don’t do that to other people.”

She and Hawkins ate supper together at the house of her ex-husband — Hawkins’ stepfather — the night before the shootings, Rodriguez said. The stepfather was vacationing in Thailand.

“When I came back to the house, there was this sense, there was this air that something was wrong,” she said.

She and police have said Hawkins took the assault rifle he used in the shootings from his stepfather’s closet.

Hawkins either was kicked out or left that home some time ago. At the time of the shootings, he was living with Debora Maruca-Kovac and her husband, whose sons were friends with Hawkins, Maruca-Kovac has said. He had lived there for a little more than a year.

When asked what people should think of her son, Rodriguez said: “I’m not perfect, I know that. But you tell me: What could I have done differently? I did my best.”
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:13 PM   #29
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She and police have said Hawkins took the assault rifle he used in the shootings from his stepfather’s closet.[/B]
Well, isn't that special..........how nice of his stepfather to have such a nice toy just laying in the house.....

I'd have the stepfather arrested for being an accessory to murder before the fact......but that's just me.



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Old 12-13-2007, 02:21 PM   #30
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How is it with gun storage? In Germany, you need to have special weapon treasures if you are owning guns, and if you don't make sure all your weapons and munition are in that treasure, it is locked properly and the key is inaccessible you will be fined.
Is there something similar in the US?
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