Obama's pandering is really making me sick! Allows anti-gay activist to speak - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-18-2008, 08:04 PM   #1
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Obama's pandering is really making me sick! Allows anti-gay activist to speak

I knew for the last year that Obama was not as principled as he let on. His compromise is ego-centrically driven because he feels he can be the GREAT MAN that unifies people, even if the compromises forced on people are unjust.

Hilary's nomination

First, he nominates that vicious thug Hilary Clinton as Secretary of State, when her views are aggressive and cowardly, threatening to obliterate Iran if it attacks Israel; if taken on first principles, this means that, if one's ally were attacked, one would be right to destroy the attacker of that ally; on this basis, Iran would be in its rights to obliterate Israel for attacking the Palestinian people since 1948 with ethnic cleansing, colonization and occupation. The right-wing mainstream media likes to blame everything on Hamas, but that group is only 21 years old folks. If fundamentalist Jews who felt it was okay to mistreat and murder Palestinians for decades believed in compromise or a fair peace, they could have reached it decades before Hamas, which is actually still a reasonable group, despite its ethical problems.

Let us suppose Hilary was lying and that she really cared for Muslim peoples and nations, then she proved herself more willing to pander to nationalist and American Jewish fundamentalist fears than Obama; she's still proven herself a bad choice.

I would much rather have had the brave Republican Senator of Nebraska, Chuck Hagel, who is retiring in January 2009; he bravely admitted supporting the war was a mistake, criticized Bush at every turn (more than even McCain), supported Obama as President against the wishes of his own party, and decried Israel's 2006 massacre of over 1,000 innocent Lebanese when most Dems were too busy kissing up to American Jewish fundamentalists instead of standing for human rights.

Obama could have picked someone with honor, but he went for the very political choice of Hilary to please nutcase nationalist supporters of her and prevent her criticism of him in Congress. As Jon Stewart pointed out, Hilary and Barack agreed on nearly every domestic issue; international affairs was the only real division between them. Hilary's more likely to mess it up, unless the idealistic side of her wins and she actually cares about justice for the Palestinians.

Let's not forget that the underlying story of this campaign, despite McCain's unforgivable selection of that racist bigot Sarah Palin as his running mate, was that Hilary was more willing to play dirty with racism than even McCain. It was she who brought up Bill Ayers and exploited Rev. Wright on Fox News, even though both men are American heroes in standing for social justice and not hypocritical American nationalism. Yes, I said it; Hilary Clinton's behavior was more shameful than that of McCain.

Inviting Rev. Rick Warren to the inauguration
Far more disgusting is Obama's decision to invite an anti-gay bigot like Rick Warren. It's not enough that Obama, in cowardly fashion, dismissed Rev. Jeremiah Wright, but he goes so far as invite a leader of the bigoted community that supports him.

Obama says it's about bringing people together. Since he's proud of Lincoln, I'll say a parallel would be if Lincoln said, as a compromise, that slavery could exist in a few states after the civil war as a compromise with the misguided South. There are certain things over which one does not compromise. I'm not gay, but I have seen gay people in hiding and have seen stories about them. They suffer enough in the shadows due to a society that shames them; they don't deserve to be treated this way.

It's obvious Obama truly believes that gay marriage is perfectly okay, but that he took on the political stance of only accepting straight marriage and civil unions for gays as a compromise with America's bigoted aspects. You don't bridge that gap by appeasing these sentiments. You eradicate them by proving they have nothing to fear by allowing these people equal rights and fighting for them.
Obama's just like John Kerry or that shameful President of the '90s Bill Clinton, after that President failed to get rid of the ban on gays in the military and got all conservative to win reelection; at least Bill tried, though.

Furthermore, Rick Warren is an egocentric windbag. Anyone who thinks he's generous and good-hearted is dumb enough to think Sarah Palin is genuine and down-to-earth; these people are obviously not good at reading people. They're both phony power-hungry freaks. I'm not saying to not engage Rick Warren, but this is an important symbolic moment. Gay people aren't trying to take away fundamentalist Christians' rights, but fundamentalist Christians are trying to destroy gays, as they have all non-Christians.

Enough! Stand up for what's right, Obama! Be cautious and economize your power, but don't sacrifice what's right for what's obviously wrong.

There could have been plenty of reverends or pastors that accept gays or don't vocally hate them from which he could choose. Instead Obama picked a guy politically designed to appeal to those who voted against him with the wrong tools. What's wrong with giving people health care or jobs? Why continue this culture war?

I was very happy to hear you go ahead with health care and environmental protection, but this sets my expectations back. Shame on you, Mr. Obama.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:24 PM   #2
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I generally agree that his choice for speaker seems ignorant, but maybe Obama is trying to make a symbolic gesture by even inviting the opposition despite a contrast in views.

But I can't help but feel for the gay community...how else would you feel when someone you despise is brought to speak to the nation?
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:33 PM   #3
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If fundamentalist Jews who felt it was okay to mistreat and murder Palestinians for decades believed in compromise or a fair peace, they could have reached it decades before Hamas, which is actually still a reasonable group, despite its ethical problems.
What is the Hamas policy towards Muslim Palestinians who leave Islam?

Is it a fairly reasonable attitude?
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:11 PM   #4
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Obama and Miracles that Never Happen

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If 10 times more people claimed to have attended Woodstock than were actually there, I suspect 10 times more people claim to have wept at Obama’s election victory than actually did. Weeping on the night of November 4 – or claiming you did -- has now become a fashion.
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...Obama’s ascendancy, he said in a Dec 1 interview published in the British newspaper, The Morning Star, “is an excellent illustration of how the system handles dissent. A black face, a soothing voice and a vague message of change - all designed to keep the rabble pacified without changing anything at all.”
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Obama’s election is no miracle, just what was needed to create the illusion of change. Any chance of meaningful change will require more than the election of another exhibitionist lawyer whose charm, forensic skills and ambition allowed him to catch the eye of people with the connections and resources to get him elected – the people who really rule America. The United States’ first black president is just another instrument of moneyed interests whose decisions will be structured by his obligations to the people who put him power and the logic of the capitalist system in which he must work -- a charming Bush, with darker skin and a liberal pedigree.
For the record, I did cry during the election night acceptance speech...lol
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:44 AM   #5
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oh, please.

his middle name is Hussein. he defeated the two biggest brand names in American politics -- Clinton, and McCain. don't forget, 4 years ago McCain was the most popular politician in America.

underestimate his skills at your own peril. believe him to be a puppet at your own risk. but do recognize that he does not walk on water, never did, and that he lives under the same system that we all do.

and if you want to discuss the shrewd but entirely contemptible Warren subject, there's another thread.

also, the US has vastly more complex foreign policy pursuits than just securing "justice" for the Palestinians.

it amazes me how much attention this single issue gets. millions of Congolese have died in the past 6 years, but who cares about that? i guess it's because they're not being killed by Jews?
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:37 AM   #6
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but do recognize that he does not walk on water, never did, and that he lives under the same system that we all do.
Exactly my point.

Anyone who thinks Obama will implement meaningful change under the current system is misguided. Choosing his administration from both sides is nice symbolism for the romantics but it's not meaningful change - it's just making the existing system more transparent.

Change will only come from ordinarily passive people actively demanding it on an ongoing basis.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:10 PM   #7
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Mr. Obama is choosing folks cut from the same cloth that McCain might have chosen.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:17 PM   #8
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Mudfield, is there a tv show that captures your sentiments well? I sure hope so.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:39 PM   #9
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Mr. Obama is choosing folks cut from the same cloth that McCain might have chosen.


and yet, both had to swing to their respective bases to win their respective party's nominations.

i do think it's good that Obama appears to be valuing proven competency over ideology, and given the fact that Bush has unquestionably run the country into the ground, now is the time for practicality.

still, one wonders what overtures a McCain/Palin ticket would have had to have made to the Religious Right.

i think, though, that, overall, the Obama picks underscore the point that his position on Iraq is by far the consensus viewpoint, one that McCain would have adopted had he won the election, and the viewpoint that Bush now adopts. again, Obama was right, and the rest have followed.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:40 PM   #10
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Mr. Obama is choosing folks cut from the same cloth that McCain might have chosen.


does the TV show involve Jews killing people? because that certainly seems to be the only thing that captures some people's attention and sympathy.

fuck the Congolese. and fuck those Buddhist monks in Burma.

some of us only care when there are Jews involved.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:55 PM   #11
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wait, you didnt really think you were going to get "change" did you?

ill let you in on a little secret:

both parties have become one in the same, big government that does its own thing rather than looking after the people. your vote means nothing and the REAL powers that be will stay in power. they got us divided, fighting over democrat vs republican, liberal vs conservative, all the while the country is going to hell in a handbasket relatively unnoticed.

"When people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is freedom." -TJ
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:51 PM   #12
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Yeah, that's right, they're all puppets of the illuminati. There is no hope, we might as well load up the old revolver in the back cupboard now, and just end it.

There is a lot wrong with the American political system, but Obama is not its cause. I've said it before, if he proves to be merely sensible and somewhat reasonable, in comparison to his precedessor, I will consider that a Very Good Thing.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:01 PM   #13
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does the TV show involve Jews killing people? because that certainly seems to be the only thing that captures some people's attention and sympathy.

fuck the Congolese. and fuck those Buddhist monks in Burma.

some of us only care when there are Jews involved.
Some of us prefer not to talk about bad things Israel does, or indeed, throw around insinuations of anti-semitism when their precious Obama is criticized.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:03 PM   #14
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if he proves to be merely sensible and somewhat reasonable, in comparison to his precedessor, I will consider that a Very Good Thing.
Yep.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:07 PM   #15
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it amazes me how much attention this single issue gets. millions of Congolese have died in the past 6 years, but who cares about that? i guess it's because they're not being killed by Jews?
By the same logic, why should anyone care about gay rights? Those gays are a minority. Who cares about their trivial concerns, there are more important matters to address ourselves to. Or, you know, let's not discuss the issue of US gays being denied marriage rights, because this discrimination is trivial by comparison to that suffered by gays in, say, Iran.

These Palestinians are only getting killed in their hundreds, we should only trouble to get concerned when it's in the millions.

Your logic, Irvine, not mine.
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