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Old 01-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #16
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so what do you propose we do? can you agree that holding people in a legal purgatory where they aren't accused of crimes is not a good thing?
first off, its not as bad as everyone seems to think it is. Its a prison, people go to prisons. Its certainly a lot better than how they've been living before.. but anyways..

However it would be nice to convict them of a crime, since everyone seems to think they deserve a fair trial, which I guess they do, except we never gave a trial to every german soldier we captured in WW2..
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:59 PM   #17
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first off, its not as bad as everyone seems to think it is. Its a prison, people go to prisons. Its certainly a lot better than how they've been living before.. but anyways..

However it would be nice to convict them of a crime, since everyone seems to think they deserve a fair trial, which I guess they do, except we never gave a trial to every german soldier we captured in WW2..
Germans not on the battlefield (in this case conducting espionage) were given trials:

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On January 2, 1942, 33 members of a German spy ring headed by Frederick or Fritz Joubert Duquesne were sentenced to serve a total of over 300 years in prison. They were brought to justice after a lengthy espionage investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Of those arrested on the charge of espionage, 19 pleaded guilty. The 14 men who entered pleas of not guilty were brought to jury trial in Federal District Court, Brooklyn, New York, on September 3, 1941; and they were all found guilty on December 13, 1941.
But we didn't give captured Germans on the battlefield trials, so why give captured terrorists trials?

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Thus, only four percent (4%) of Guantánamo Bay detainees for whom a CSRT had been convened were ever alleged by the United States Government to have been on a battlefield to which they might return. The report further revealed that only twenty-four (24) detainees—just five percent (5%)—were alleged to have been captured by United States forces.

A comparison of the two data sets reveals that exactly one detainee was alleged to have been captured on a battlefield by United States forces. That lone detainee is Omar Khadr (ISN5 66), a Canadian citizen who was captured when he was fifteen (15) years old.
Sucks for that 15 year old!
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:22 AM   #18
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first off, its not as bad as everyone seems to think it is. Its a prison, people go to prisons. Its certainly a lot better than how they've been living before.. but anyways..

However it would be nice to convict them of a crime, since everyone seems to think they deserve a fair trial, which I guess they do, except we never gave a trial to every german soldier we captured in WW2..
Once again I just have to say your mind is already freed...
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:48 AM   #19
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I'm all for closing Gitmo if it helps our "image" as a country, but what will happen to the inmates? Their home countries don't want them, we can't let them go--so they will probably go to some military prison and sit in there just like they were sitting in Gitmo. I see this as a rather ceremonial thing. If you are simply against the sort of techniques that were used at Gitmo--Obama claimed he was going to stop those anyway. I hope nobody is under the illusion that all of the sudden these people are going to get fair and expedient trials.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:39 AM   #20
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This is excellent news. This will go a long way towards restoring our moral high ground and credibility around the world. Obviously there are a lot of issues that still need to be worked out (Where do the inmates go? How do we try them?), but this sends a strong symbolic signal that the immoral and un-American tactics used by the Bush administration in the last 8 years are finished.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:40 PM   #21
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Released detainee now Yemen al-Qaida commander - Yahoo! News
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:00 PM   #22
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It was a great recruiting tool wasn't it? No good came out of this. We tarnished our image to the world and gave extremist one reason to go back even angrier and recruit even more...

When you're holding minors, holding men indefinately admittingly many without any evidence, what did you honestly expect from this?
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:56 PM   #23
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It was a great recruiting tool wasn't it? No good came out of this. We tarnished our image to the world and gave extremist one reason to go back even angrier and recruit even more...
maybe if the media didn't blow everything out of proportion...I like how the media talks about all these things that are supposed to be classified...terrorists dont need a satellite, all they need to do is turn on the 6 oclock news
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:06 PM   #24
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I'm all for closing Gitmo if it helps our "image" as a country, but what will happen to the inmates?
I was thinking we could send them to the red states.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:08 PM   #25
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I was thinking we could send them to the red states.
haha that wouldnt be me!
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:37 PM   #26
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maybe if the media didn't blow everything out of proportion...I like how the media talks about all these things that are supposed to be classified...terrorists dont need a satellite, all they need to do is turn on the 6 oclock news

Oh the famous "librul media" defense...
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:29 AM   #27
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politico.com



Cheney warns of new attacks

By: John F. Harris and Mike Allen and Jim VandeHei
February 4, 2009 05:56 AM EST

Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.

In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.

And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans — and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team — understand.

“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.

Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”

Citing intelligence reports, Cheney said at least 61 of the inmates who were released from Guantanamo during the Bush administration — “that’s about 11 or 12 percent” — have “gone back into the business of being terrorists.”

The 200 or so inmates still there, he claimed, are “the hard core” whose “recidivism rate would be much higher.” (Lawyers for Guantanamo detainees have strongly disputed the recidivism figures, asserting that the Pentagon data have inconsistencies and omissions.) Cheney called Guantanamo a “first-class program,” and “a necessary facility” that is operated legally and with better food and treatment than the jails in inmates' native countries.

But he said he worried that “instead of sitting down and carefully evaluating the policies,” Obama officials are unwisely following “campaign rhetoric” and preparing to release terrorism suspects or afford them legal protections granted to more conventional defendants in crime cases.

The choice, he alleged, reflects a naive mindset among the new team in Washington: “The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected. Sometimes, that requires us to take actions that generate controversy. I’m not at all sure that that’s what the Obama administration believes.”

The dire portrait Cheney painted of the country’s security situation was made even grimmer by his comments agreeing with analysts who believe this recession may be a once-in-a-century disaster.
“It’s unlike anything I’ve ever seen,” Cheney said. “The combination of the financial crisis that started last year, coupled now with, obviously, a major recession, I think we’re a long way from having solved these problems.”

The interview, less than two weeks after the Bush administration ceded power to Obama, found the man who is arguably the most controversial — and almost surely the most influential — vice president in U.S. history in a self-vindicating mood.

He expressed confidence that files will some day be publicly accessible offering specific evidence that waterboarding and other policies he promoted — over sharp internal dissent from colleagues and harsh public criticism — were directly responsible for averting new Sept. 11-style attacks.

Not content to wait for a historical verdict, Cheney said he is set to plunge into his own memoirs, feeling liberated to describe behind-the-scenes roles over several decades in government now that the “statute of limitations has expired” on many of the most sensitive episodes.

His comments made unmistakable that Cheney — likely more than former President Bush, who has not yet given post-White House interviews — is willing and even eager to spar with the new administration and its supporters over the issues he cares most about.

His standing in this public debate is beset by contradictions. Cheney for years has had intimate access to the sort of highly classified national security intelligence that Obama and his teams are only recently seeing.

But many of the top Democratic legal and national security players have long viewed Cheney as a man who became unhinged by his fears, responsible for major misjudgments in Iraq and Afghanistan, willing to bend or break legal precedents and constitutional principles to advance his aims. Polls show he is one of the most unpopular people in national life.

In the interview, Cheney revealed no doubts about his own course — and many about the new administration’s.

“If it hadn’t been for what we did — with respect to the terrorist surveillance program, or enhanced interrogation techniques for high-value detainees, the Patriot Act, and so forth — then we would have been attacked again,” he said. “Those policies we put in place, in my opinion, were absolutely crucial to getting us through the last seven-plus years without a major-casualty attack on the U.S.”

Cheney said “the ultimate threat to the country” is “a 9/11-type event where the terrorists are armed with something much more dangerous than an airline ticket and a box cutter – a nuclear weapon or a biological agent of some kind” that is deployed in the middle of an American city.

“That’s the one that would involve the deaths of perhaps hundreds of thousands of people, and the one you have to spend a hell of a lot of time guarding against,” he said.

“I think there’s a high probability of such an attempt. Whether or not they can pull it off depends whether or not we keep in place policies that have allowed us to defeat all further attempts, since 9/11, to launch mass-casualty attacks against the United States.”


If Cheney’s language was dramatic, the setting for the comments was almost bizarrely pedestrian. His office is in a non-descript suburban office building in McLean, Va., in a suite that could just as easily house a dental clinic. The office is across the hall from a quick-copy store. The door is marked by nothing except a paper sign, held up by tape, saying the unit is occupied by the General Services Administration.

At several points, Cheney resisted singling out Obama personally for criticism, at one point saying he wants to give him a break after just two weeks in office. He said he admires Obama’s choice to keep Defense Secretary Robert Gates on the job.

But if he treated Obama gingerly, Cheney was eager to engage in the broader philosophical debate he was accustomed to with Democrats and even many in his own party about the right way to navigate a dangerous planet. He said he fears the people populating Obama’s ranks put too much faith in negotiation, persuasion, and good intentions.

“I think there are some who probably actually believe that if we just go talk nice to these folks, everything’s going to be okay,” he said.

He said his own experience tempers his belief in diplomacy.

“I think they’re optimistic. All new administrations are optimistic. We were,” he said.

“They may be able, in some cases, to make progress diplomatically that we weren’t,” Cheney said. “But, on the other hand, I think they’re likely to find — just as we did — that lots of times the diplomacy doesn’t work. Or diplomacy doesn’t work without there being an implied threat of something more serious if it fails.”

As examples of the dangerous world he sees — and one he predicted Obama and aides would find “sobering” — were Russia’s backsliding into authoritarianism and away from democracy, and the ongoing showdowns over the nuclear intentions of Iran and North Korea.

But it was the choice over Guantanamo that most dominated Cheney’s comments.

“If you release the hard-core Al Qaeda terrorists that are held at Guantanamo, I think they go back into the business of trying to kill more Americans and mount further mass-casualty attacks,” he said. “If you turn ’em loose and they go kill more Americans, who’s responsible for that?”

Of one alternative — moving prisoners to the U.S. prisons — Cheney said he has heard from few members of Congress eager for Guantanamo transfers to their home-state prisons, and asked: “Is that really a good idea to take hardened Al Qaeda terrorists who’ve already killed thousands of Americans and put ’em in San Quentin or some other prison facility where they can spread their venom even more widely than it already is?”
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:56 PM   #28
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Courthouse News Service July 10

Female FBI Agent at Guantanamo Blasts 'Animal House' Behavior
By TIM HULL


BOSTON (CN) - The first full-time female FBI agent to be stationed at Guantanamo says she was made to bunk with vermin that gave her a tropical disease and was ostracized because she refused to join in a "spring break" atmosphere in which agents were encouraged to drink, date, and frolic when not interrogating alleged terrorists. She says FBI agents attended parties dressed in "mocking imitation of Arab or Afghan attire" and in orange detainee jumpsuits. And she says she has photos to prove it.
Theresa A. Foley, 43, requested a transfer to Camp Delta at Guantanamo Bay in 2003, and says that from the moment she arrived she found a "generally sexist, discriminatory and 'boys club' atmosphere" at the island prison.
In her federal complaint, Foley says that because she is a woman she was assigned to filthy, rat-infested quarters where she contracted Leptospirosis, a tropical disease that causes swelling in the joints and other symptoms that left her completely disabled and forced to live with her parents.
In her claim against Attorney General Eric Holder and the Department of Justice, Foley says she has photographs depicting "personnel at Guantanamo engaged in drunken carousing in a sexually charged atmosphere, day and night," including shots of "female employees in bathing suits or revealing attire sitting on the laps of male employees, and female employees being hugged, kissed and likely groped by male employees."
Her complaint states: "Other photographs reveal, among other things, what appear to be intoxicated FBI employees wearing some type of mocking imitation of Arab or Afghan attire, and personnel at a Halloween party dressed in orange detainee jumpsuits (apparently as a joke). Still other employees appear to be completely intoxicated and engaged in various activities which indicate both a pervasive discriminatory atmosphere toward women, as well as behavior inappropriate for employees stationed at a detention facility for terrorists. Some of the behavior resembles stereotypical 'spring break' behavior. This highly inappropriate behavior by FBI personnel and other U.S. Government personnel working at Guantanamo, was known by the FBI, was encouraged by the FBI, and was tolerated by the FBI."
She adds, "This pervasive sexually discriminatory and harassing atmosphere was at such an extreme, that it is accurate to describe the prevalent atmosphere as an 'animal house' atmosphere. When FBI agents were not busy interrogating terrorists held at Guantanamo, they were expected and encouraged by their managers and supervisors to be sun bathing, snorkeling, fishing, drinking, carousing and engaging in romantic relationships with each other. Over the course of her stay at Guantanamo, once it became clear that SA Foley did not believe this conduct was appropriate for an FBI Special Agent, and refused to engage in this conduct, SA Foley was ostracized and maligned."
Foley says she was sexually harassed by male FBI agents, called a lesbian, and told that her "nipples were leaking."
Foley says she has undergone numerous surgeries for Leptospirosis, a disease made worse, she claims, by the FBI's unwillingness to allow her to stand - rather than the traditional kneeling pose - during firearms qualification. She has had a hysterectomy, her spine has collapsed, and she is constantly fighting off infections because of a compromised autoimmune system, the lawsuit claims.
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