Obama reverses abortion policy

[Irvine511]

They want to reverse "Roe Vs. Wade." Before that, abortion was still an option in most places, as long as you had a good reason...I just want something done that will stop all the unnessisary abortions that take place (Which is a good deal of all abortions).

what qualifies as an "unnecessary" abortion?

 

[martha]

.I just want something done that will stop all the unnessisary abortions that take place (Which is a good deal of all abortions).

So. What do you want then? Exactly what do you want? What law would you write.

And, for the record, I know what it was like before Roe v. Wade. You don't have to explain it to me. You, on the other hand, clearly don't know what it was like.

 

[yolland]

I don't see what's so bad about spousal consent, it's the father baby too...

Wait, so you think that if a man wishes to have a vasectomy to avoid having children (or more children), his wife should be legally entitled to an absolute veto over that decision? To me that is an appalling idea--she doesn't own his reproductive capacity, ultimately that is his alone. Sure, ideally a couple would discuss these things first and perhaps make some mutual compromises, but at the point where you're talking about a legal right to veto such decisions...

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

what qualifies as an "unnecessary" abortion?

When the mother wasn't raped, the mother is perfectly healthy, and the baby doesn't present significant financial problem.

So. What do you want then? Exactly what do you want? What law would you write.

And, for the record, I know what it was like before Roe v. Wade. You don't have to explain it to me. You, on the other hand, clearly don't know what it was like.

yes, it is true what it was like before, I will give you that. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't pretend to be one so I don't know exactly what I would write. Something along the lines of doctors who perform abortions have to have a reason, by giving the mother a physical, looking at her finances, etc. Just a basic idea. What do you guys think?

 

[martha]

When the mother wasn't raped,

How do you make sure of this?

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

How do you make sure of this?

thats the tricky part. because either she's telling the truth, or she's lying.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I would say only if she is involved in a rape case, because everyone has the right to a lawyer...I think that would discourage some women would lie about getting raped to get an abortion

 

[Irvine511]

i liked "present a significant financial problem."

how will we determine these things? will a woman have to stand in front of a board? perhaps a group of men can hear her case?

 

[Irvine511]

I would say only if she is involved in a rape case, because everyone has the right to a lawyer...I think that would discourage some women would lie about getting raped to get an abortion

so what if the case takes 9 months to get a verdict?

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

i liked "present a significant financial problem."

how will we determine these things? will a woman have to stand in front of a board? perhaps a group of men can hear her case?

well I already said my idea, that the doctor goes over her finances, bank statements, etc. Im sure that there's something that would work

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

so what if the case takes 9 months to get a verdict?

I said if she was involved in a rape case, not wait till it's over. Give her the benefit of the doubt. So basically, if she wants an abortion because of rape, she also has to submit a case saying she was raped.

 

[Irvine511]

well I already said my idea, that the doctor goes over her finances, bank statements, etc. Im sure that there's something that would work

because a doctor is in a position to judge this?

i suppose he would know better than she would. girls often find math difficult.

 

[Irvine511]

I said if she was involved in a rape case, not wait till it's over. Give her the benefit of the doubt. So basically, if she wants an abortion because of rape, she also has to submit a case saying she was raped.

so, now, every woman who wants an abortion is going to say they were raped.

does this strike you as a good idea?

 

[martha]

I would say only if she is involved in a rape case, because everyone has the right to a lawyer...I think that would discourage some women would lie about getting raped to get an abortion

You know nothing about women, rape, the law, abortion, life.

well I already said my idea, that the doctor goes over her finances, bank statements, etc. Im sure that there's something that would work

Go ahead and email your financial records. Then I'll make your health decisions for you.

I said if she was involved in a rape case, not wait till it's over. Give her the benefit of the doubt. So basically, if she wants an abortion because of rape, she also has to submit a case saying she was raped.

How fucking generous of you.

 

[martha]

thats the tricky part. because either she's telling the truth, or she's lying.

Ya think?

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

because a doctor is in a position to judge this?

i suppose he would know better than she would. girls often find math difficult.

ok that second part you really twisted my words. I mean that doctors shouldn't take the mother's word for it, because many would just say something to get an abortion when there wasn't a reason. I think the doctor should consult with others whose fields are in child support and finances

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I like how no one recognizes the good or the reasons behind my idea.

 

[Irvine511]

ok that second part you really twisted my words. I mean that doctors shouldn't take the mother's word for it, because many would just say something to get an abortion when there wasn't a reason. I think the doctor should consult with others whose fields are in child support and finances

don't doctors have other things to do?

what do you consider a "reason" to get an abortion, and who decides what is and what isn't a good reason for an abortion? are doctors the best people to decide this? if we're talking about rape, we're also going to be involving police officers and lawyers and potentially juries, right?

you're pretty clear that we can't take the mother's word for it, since she's not in any position to assess the actual "necessity" of her need for an abortion.

so let's hear it. who is going to decide this? a panel? one person?

 

[Irvine511]

I like how no one recognizes the good or the reasons behind my idea.

i'm asking you questions to get you to think about the reasons behind your ideas.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

so, now, every woman who wants an abortion is going to say they were raped.

does this strike you as a good idea?

They'd have to prove it in court.

 

[Irvine511]

They'd have to prove it in court.

what if the case takes more than 9 months?

 

[martha]

I like how no one recognizes the good or the reasons behind my idea.

Because your idea is neither good nor reasonable. You're incredibly anti-woman.

 

[martha]

They'd have to prove it in court.

Go research how many rape cases actually:
1. are reported
2. are prosecuted
3. have the rapist convicted
4. get settle with in the first trimester of a pregnancy

 

[martha]

I have a question for those who think forcing women to have children is such a barn-burner of an idea. Most of you will make an exception for those women who have been raped. How do you legally differentiate those circumstances? How does it work? How does the law separate the sluts form the victims?

For example:

Andrea is seventeen, and having sex regularly with her boyfriend. They use condoms, but one time the condom breaks and she ends up pregnant. She was a willing participant in the sex, so is unqualified to have her pregnancy terminated. Her plans to attend college for a decade and become a physician are terminated instead.

Betty is seventeen and a virgin, until the night her creepy uncle holds her down and rapes her while she cries and begs him to stop. She becomes pregnant as a result of his actions.

How do those of you who support abortion access in Betty's case differentiate between the slut and the victim? How does it work? How do you make sure that Andrea bears the child of her shame and Betty doesn't? What must Betty prove to you so you allow her access to abortion?

This question still stands for anyone else to attempt to answer.

 

[VintagePunk]

I like how no one recognizes the good or the reasons behind my idea.

Um, maybe because they're not good? As for the reasons, only you can tell us that. But still, reasons behind illogical ideas aren't going to help, anyway.

For a reasoned statement on the matter written by a fellow pro-lifer, read this. He states very practical ways to reduce the number of abortions, and reading his post was very refreshing. He gets it.

I did a lot of independent research on this subject during the recent election and came to the firm conclusion that the Right Wing Republican way of dealing with the issue is simply wrong — and this is coming from someone who considers himself pro-life. The ironic truth is that if you want to see actual lives saved, the Democrats are where it's at.

This is true for two reasons, and they're tied together:

1. Poverty. According to numbers at Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States (numbers used by the National Right to Life), women living below the poverty level are four times more likely to have abortions. 75 percent of women who have abortions say at least one reason of doing so is because they feel they won't be able to afford the child (a true poverty, indeed).

Which party focuses on the poor? Which party caters to the wealthy? There's even a staggering truth to these numbers. Yes, abortion has been on the decline for years, but guess what president saw the largest decline in abortions? Clinton. (see chart years 1993-2000) Why? Because the Democrats tend to lift people out of poverty.

2. The second reason why the Democrats are saving lives is a new one. There's a sea change in the party on the issue. A. You have Obama, who even in "The Audacity of Hope," which was written years ago, said we must take a multi-pronged approach to reducing abortions — even though he's pro-choice. On its own, this is huge for a presidential candidate (now president) to say. B. Democrats for Life (yes, they exist) are gaining in numbers and influence and have an ambitious goal for reducing abortions by 95 percent in 10 years: Democrats For Life of America
C. The Democratic platform itself has been rewritten in part by two progressive pastors, Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo, to include a focus on abortion reduction: God's Politics - Jim Wallis blog, faith blog, religion, christian, christianity, politics, values
Again, on it's own, this is huge.

You add these three things up, and you get a movement, in my estimation at least. I'm excited about it. Even since becoming president, Obama has called for common ground on abortion. Again, things are changing: God's Politics: A Blog by Jim Wallis & Friends

 

[Irvine511]

You're incredibly anti-woman.

you say anti-woman. others say pro-unborn American.

 

[AliEnvy]

you say anti-woman. others say pro-unborn American.

In both cases in the current environment, woman simply can't be trusted.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

what if the case takes more than 9 months?

I said if a woman wants an abortion because of rape, she should should also need to go to court. Obviosuly people didn't read my post in its entirety, because I said she doens't have to wait for the case to end to get the abortion.

This question still stands for anyone else to attempt to answer.

According to my idea, the girl who was raped could get an abortion, and would then prove to court she was raped. The promiscuous woman could get an abortion if she cried rape, but I doubt afterwards her case would stand up in court. and then she would have to live with that.

Because your idea is neither good nor reasonable. You're incredibly anti-woman.

I most certainly am not. I was raised around women, I grew up with my mom and grandma without a father, and my mom has like 8 sisters. I hold great respect for women.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

as a matter of fact I have more respect for women then I do most men.

 

[Irvine511]

The promiscuous woman could get an abortion if she cried rape, but I doubt afterwards her case would stand up in court. and then she would have to live with that.

you know, even promiscuous women get raped.