Obama reverses abortion policy

[DrTeeth]

It's about fucking time this ridiculous policy was abandoned. There were many very good organizations which had nothing to do with abortion that were denied funding simply because they talked about family planning.

Well said

 

[U2isthebest]

Well I don't like the term anti-choice. No one calles people anti-life, except radical right wingers, which I am not. I think the terms pro-choice and pro-life work because both satisfy the persons beliefs..

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother going into semantics here.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother going into semantics here.

yeah. Im actually sorry I said that!

 

[Liesje]

Well I *personally* am pro-life in that I don't think I could ever have an abortion, BUT I know I have the luxury of being able to say that. I have a spouse, a job, a family that would probably be nothing short of thrilled if I got preggers.

But anyway...for me things like this are not about who has abortions and why, they are about the fact that I will not have some rich old white Christian fundie tell ME what I can or cannot do or what my doctors can or cannot do with respect to my own medical decisions. And if I have that right than I don't see why anyone else anywhere else should not.

And yeah, that whole thing about the effing war costing us BILLIONS while an abortion sometimes costs less than getting a dog spayed...

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Question, who here thinks that its right for any woman who is in perfect health to get an abortion simply because she doesn't want the baby? (Not rape, incest, etc.)

 

[DrTeeth]

Question, who here thinks that its right for any woman who is in perfect health to get an abortion simply because she doesn't want the baby? (Not rape, incest, etc.)

 

[U2isthebest]

Question, who here thinks that its right for any woman who is in perfect health to get an abortion simply because she doesn't want the baby? (Not rape, incest, etc.)

I think that simply getting an abortion because you don't feel like having a baby is wrong. However, that's rarely the case. Even if the health of a mother isn't in danger, or there's not a rape/incest situation, the majority of abortions (outside of health, rape, or incest) occur because a woman is either too young to be ready to be a mother and/or she's not in a financial situation to have the resources to provide for a child.

ETA: I agree with Lies below me when she says that abortions are a medical procedure and, like any medical procedure should only be between a person and their doctor.

 

[Liesje]

Question, who here thinks that its right for any woman who is in perfect health to get an abortion simply because she doesn't want the baby? (Not rape, incest, etc.)

I am morally opposed to abortion as a convenience, but really I don't think it's any of my biznaz. I mean it's a medical procedure performed by a medical doctor. Not only is that confidential anyway but I can't pretend to understand someone else's circumstances or assume their beliefs are the same as mine.

Again, it's not about WHY people get abortions....it's not even really about abortions...

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Ok. Who supports Obama voting againt the Born Alive act?

 

[LemonMelon]

Question, who here thinks that its right for any woman who is in perfect health to get an abortion simply because she doesn't want the baby? (Not rape, incest, etc.)

Do I think it's right? I wouldn't encourage it over other options such as, I don't know, a condom. Of course, contraceptives are affordable here.

However, realistically, do I have any right to foist my beliefs on anyone else? Absolutely not. This is why I'm leaning more towards pro-choice these days. I hate abortion. It's sickening, and often an unfortunate consequence of poor decision-making and generally shitty circumstances. I love life, and I want the best for each and every creature on God's green earth. However, in some of the aforementioned shitty circumstances, the more reasonable and less damaging option is abortion, and for this reason, it should remain an option.

Always keep the following in mind:

The life of the mother is of higher priority than that of the fetus.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I think that simply getting an abortion because you don't feel like having a baby is wrong. However, that's rarely the case. Even if the health of a mother isn't in danger, or there's not a rape/incest situation, the majority of abortions (outside of health, rape, or incest) occur because a woman is either too young to be ready to be a mother and/or she's not in a financial situation to have the resources to provide for a child.

I honestly don't know whether teens should be able to get abortions. But if you can't afford the child, give it up for adoption. Also, I read this.

1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

Abortion Statistics

In the U.S. mind you, but still

 

[Lila64]

it's about fucking time this ridiculous policy was abandoned. There were many very good organizations which had nothing to do with abortion that were denied funding simply because they talked about family planning.

I really don't give a shit that a man living in the us is pissed. Women all over the world were endangered by this stupid policy. that should have been pissing people off.

QFT

 

[U2isthebest]

Ok. Who supports Obama voting againt the Born Alive act?

Obama has stated many times that the reason he didn't support the Born Alive Act (which, by the way, was only for the state of Illinois, the federal act was passed in 2002 before Obama was in the U.S. Senate) was because it didn't have a clause in it that protected the already existing Illinois abortion laws. The federal Born Alive Act, however, did have provisions that protected existing abortion laws and President Obama has said many times that, had he been in the U.S. Senate at the time the bill was going through it, he would have voted for it. So, to answer your question, since the Illinois bill (that Obama voted against) didn't have provisions that would protect the normal abortion laws, I don't think I would've supported it either.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

ETA: I agree with Lies below me when she says that abortions are a medical procedure and, like any medical procedure should only be between a person and their doctor.

I suppose, but just because its a medial procedure doesn't make it right. Assissted suicide is a medical procedure...although I wont bring that topic in

 

[Liesje]

I suppose, but just because its a medial procedure doesn't make it right. Assissted suicide is a medical procedure...although I wont bring that topic in

Yeah don't bring that up, lol, I actually agree with THAT more than abortion...

 

[U2isthebest]

I honestly don't know whether teens should be able to get abortions. But if you can't afford the child, give it up for adoption. Also, I read this.



Abortion Statistics

In the U.S. mind you, but still

As for the adoption issues, I already addressed that. There would be far more infants up for adoption than people willing to adopt them. That wouldn't solve anything. Also, teenage girls are still people with rights and that includes medical rights. I'm on the fence at this point about whether or not I feel the parents of a minor need to be aware of a potential abortion. I don't think they should be able to make a final decision, though. Also, keep in mind that the 93% stat doesn't just mean "unwanted or inconvenient" because someone doesn't want a kid. That may sometimes be the case, however, those same words could easily be looped into the examples I used earlier about age, finances, resources, etc.

 

[U2isthebest]

I suppose, but just because its a medial procedure doesn't make it right. Assissted suicide is a medical procedure...although I wont bring that topic in

While I personally may not agree with assisted suicide, in the end, it's a medical decision and should still be between a person and a doctor. That's all I'll say about it.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Obama has stated many times that the reason he didn't support the Born Alive Act (which, by the way, was only for the state of Illinois, the federal act was passed in 2002 before Obama was in the U.S. Senate) was because it didn't have a clause in it that protected the already existing Illinois abortion laws. The federal Born Alive Act, however, did have provisions that protected existing abortion laws and President Obama has said many times that, had he been in the U.S. Senate at the time the bill was going through it, he would have voted for it. So, to answer your question, since the Illinois bill (that Obama voted against) didn't have provisions that would protect the normal abortion laws, I don't think I would've supported it either.

"Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said."

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

That may sometimes be the case, however, those same words could easily be looped into the examples I used earlier about age, finances, resources, etc.

heres all the statistics:

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who's having abortions (age)?
52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.

Who's having abortions (race)?
While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.

Who's having abortions (marital status)?
64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.

Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

Likelihood of abortion:
An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.

Abortion coverage:
48% of all abortion facilities provide services after the 12th week of pregnancy. 9 in 10 managed care plans routinely cover abortion or provide limited coverage. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds, virtually all of which are state funds. 16 states (CA, CT, HI, ED, IL, MA , MD, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) pay for abortions for some poor women.

 

[LemonMelon]

"Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said."

What does "faze" mean in this context? Did he laugh like a homicidal maniac, shrug carelessly, or just not change his entire policy after finding out what an abortion can entail (as if he didn't know already)?

 

[U2isthebest]

"Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said."

So because this lady says Obama didn't break into tearful fits of rage that means he's gunning for more abortions, or in this case the death of infants who remain alive after a failed abortions? That's not an argument. That's an emotional reaction of a woman who probably doesn't like Obama very much any way. She's very likely anti-choice, regardless, so I doubt she'd understand or support any of Obama's abortion policies. You can't use that as any kind of evidence for anything.

 

[anitram]

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said."

So what?

He should have burst into tears?

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

So what?

He should have burst into tears?

to be honest I probably would have

 

[phillyfan26]

ok. Im pro-life. So Im kinda biased But I think its sick, that MY tax payer money, is going to organizations to fund abortions. Why not use that money to aid debt relief in Africa or something else?

Stop thinking that.

The money is not going to just "fund abortions." It's funding for organizations that perform OR simply give information about abortions. Very little of the money will actually fund the abortions themselves.

Essentially, the policy in place was, "Organizations that talk about abortion don't get federal funding." Obama nixed that.

Both sides should see this as obvious.

 

[U2isthebest]

So what?

He should have burst into tears?

Exactly. I wonder how many tears this Jill Stanek has shed over all the innocent people that were killed in Palestine last week, or in Israel because of the Hamas attacks? How about tears for the thousands of Iraqis that have been killed because of our former president and his uncontrolled and misguided desire for revenge? I'm not saying that I purport to know her political beliefs about these topics, but I'm willing to bet that she's not out there actively campaigning against any of them. Why would she expect Obama to do the same about her cause?

 

[Se7en]

this thread is going nowhere -- fast.

 

[phillyfan26]

Question, who here thinks that its right for any woman who is in perfect health to get an abortion simply because she doesn't want the baby? (Not rape, incest, etc.)

Here's the problem. If it's limited to rape, then how does a woman go about proving it? Often times rape takes quite a while to prove. A woman does not have much time to get an abortion once she is pregnant. Should she honestly have to wait for the legal system (which can take years)?

Which is why it's best to just leave it up to the women themselves.

 

[U2isthebest]

to be honest I probably would have

That's nice, but you're not President (then state Senator) Obama. Also, how do any of us know that he didn't shed some tears or have an emotional reaction privately? There's nothing wrong with trying to maintain composure and a sense of reason in order to make the best decision, especially in a case like this.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

alright, I guess I just give up. Nothing I say can be taken as a point.

 

[indra]

So what?

He should have burst into tears?

Clearly he was supposed to do what she wanted him to do. I mean, duh.

I notice that many of the so-called pro-life people expect people to be all emotional about this type of thing, but any attempt to ask them to feel for the mother is so often met with "well, she should have thought of that before she went fucking around." That doesn't help their cause any.