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Old 01-28-2009, 10:30 AM   #316
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Which is why this argument is beyond terrible.
And it makes the potential more important than the actual.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:31 AM   #317
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It is a potential human being. A potential Einstein, Newton, or maybe even an Obama.

Pay more respect to the fetus. It's the shit.



edited because anitram beat me to it.
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:13 AM   #318
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I don't really expect an answer. It's complicated.

I have a question for those who think forcing women to have children is such a barn-burner of an idea. Most of you will make an exception for those women who have been raped. How do you legally differentiate those circumstances? How does it work? How does the law separate the sluts form the victims?

For example:

Andrea is seventeen, and having sex regularly with her boyfriend. They use condoms, but one time the condom breaks and she ends up pregnant. She was a willing participant in the sex, so is unqualified to have her pregnancy terminated. Her plans to attend college for a decade and become a physician are terminated instead.

Betty is seventeen and a virgin, until the night her creepy uncle holds her down and rapes her while she cries and begs him to stop. She becomes pregnant as a result of his actions.

How do those of you who support abortion access in Betty's case differentiate between the slut and the victim? How does it work? How do you make sure that Andrea bears the child of her shame and Betty doesn't? What must Betty prove to you so you allow her access to abortion?
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:23 PM   #319
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I have a question for those who think forcing women to have children is such a barn-burner of an idea. Most of you will make an exception for those women who have been raped. How do you legally differentiate those circumstances? How does it work? How does the law separate the sluts form the victims?

For example:

Andrea is seventeen, and having sex regularly with her boyfriend. They use condoms, but one time the condom breaks and she ends up pregnant. She was a willing participant in the sex, so is unqualified to have her pregnancy terminated. Her plans to attend college for a decade and become a physician are terminated instead.

Betty is seventeen and a virgin, until the night her creepy uncle holds her down and rapes her while she cries and begs him to stop. She becomes pregnant as a result of his actions.

How do those of you who support abortion access in Betty's case differentiate between the slut and the victim? How does it work? How do you make sure that Andrea bears the child of her shame and Betty doesn't? What must Betty prove to you so you allow her access to abortion?
Ooh! Ooh! Can I answer?

It's not *really* about bringing the fetus to term, and it never was. Because they're both fetuses with the potential for life, right? And in Betty's case, how do the circumstances of that conception change the fact that it's still an innocent fetus?

So, I guess it's more about passing judgment on, and punishing women for perceived whorishness.

What do I win?
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:44 PM   #320
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What do I win?
infinite knowledge
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:49 PM   #321
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infinite knowledge

What? No answer for my question?

You want to restrict access to abortion because it makes you sad. So, answer my question. How is it done?
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:54 PM   #322
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What? No answer for my question?


my answer is that the little slut needs to be reminded of what she's done every single night at 3am when that baby wakes her up screaming. *then* she'll wish she'd listened in Sunday School and kept her damn panties on. she's learned quite a lesson, hasn't she?
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:15 PM   #323
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You want to restrict access to abortion because it makes you sad. So, answer my question. How is it done?
you said yourself Im not that educated about the subject so I have no idea...
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:41 PM   #324
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But there again, tubal ligations and vasectomies are not cheap or widely available if you are in the situation of being a young woman in an impoverished country or place where you probably don't have rights to even ask your spouse/parter for those options.
It's not just a matter of money, geography or spousal consent (although not that long ago spousal consent was required here).

I know a few women who in their early-mid 20s decided motherhood was not for them but were told they couldn't get a voluntary tubal ligation until they were 35. Until then, there's an array of hormone (mind/body) altering options that may fail. Great!

Women who don't want to be mothers are often treated like they just need more time to change their minds or need to "meet the right guy". Unbelievably condescending.

Societal fascination, revulsion and dysfunction around female sexuality is so very relentless.
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:50 PM   #325
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my answer is that the little slut needs to be reminded of what she's done every single night at 3am when that baby wakes her up screaming. *then* she'll wish she'd listened in Sunday School and kept her damn panties on. she's learned quite a lesson, hasn't she?
And she may even repent and begin attending masses and donating to our church!

(Alright, that might be too cynical of me, I admit it.)
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:54 PM   #326
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you said yourself Im not that educated about the subject so I have no idea...

But you were so proud of your participation in the March for "Life." Don't they have an answer for you?
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:00 PM   #327
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It's not just a matter of money, geography or spousal consent (although not that long ago spousal consent was required here).
Decades ago, my grandmother had 7 children very close together, and was suffering poor health, which was made worse by having multiple close pregnancies. Her doctor gave her a hysterectomy when she didn't really need one, under the guise of health reasons, to prevent her from going through future pregnancies. He did this because my grandfather would not approve of tubal ligation. Nice, huh?
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:00 PM   #328
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Women who don't want to be mothers are often treated like they just need more time to change their minds or need to "meet the right guy". Unbelievably condescending.


5,000 years, Ali. 5,000 years.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:00 PM   #329
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(although not that long ago spousal consent was required here).
I don't see what's so bad about spousal consent, it's the father baby too...

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But you were so proud of your participation in the March for "Life." Don't they have an answer for you?
They want to reverse "Roe Vs. Wade." Before that, abortion was still an option in most places, as long as you had a good reason...I just want something done that will stop all the unnessisary abortions that take place (Which is a good deal of all abortions).
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:01 PM   #330
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And she may even repent and begin attending masses and donating to our church!

(Alright, that might be too cynical of me, I admit it.)


i just want her to learn about responsibility. kids these days are so spoiled and think they can get away with anything.
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