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Old 01-26-2009, 09:15 PM   #226
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To be honest, I think it's really sick when someone gets an abortion because they find out the baby has something like say Down Syndrome.
While I respect people to make decisions based on their own circumstances and ability to raise a special needs child, I was also disturbed that a few people in my life did not respect my decision not to have amniocentesis and treated that decision as irresponsible.

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However what was she doing having sex at age 12??
Take your pick -

* It feels good
* Male attention and affirmation she may not be getting at home
* Acting out against parents
* Curiosity
* Peer pressure
* Confusing sex and love
* Fear of rejection
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:15 PM   #227
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Then what you're saying supports it being a choice, doesn't it?
I didn't suggest that...
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:17 PM   #228
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Just to be clear, when I said I was anti-abortion, I didn't say that it should be banned. I am also pro-choice.

Um, the idea is to provide more adoptive parents in committed relationships with babies. Not ideal, but better than abortion due to shame and inconvenience.
Yes, but I was explicitly referring to promoting that option in the broader context of abortion being illegal, since that's what nathan to whom you were responding advocates. I agree that relinquishing your infant to an infertile couple who are better-placed than you to provide for it materially is a wonderfully generous choice to make, but I doubt we'd succeed in effecting willingness to make that choice on any significant scale in a context of banning abortion altogether, unless we were to somehow first reframe pregnancy as a casual, thoroughly unremarkable endeavor, one for which it supposedly makes no difference at all when and in what circumstances it happens (and therefore, no motivation to seek to terminate it). Which seems wildly unrealistic, both in the sense that I can't imagine any woman experiencing pregnancy that way, and in the sense that it seems like the broader social consequences of that reframing wouldn't justify whatever increase in the number of women choosing relinquishment might result. But in a pro-choice context, you're right, being pro-choice should mean supporting the individual woman in whichever choice she makes--having an abortion, keeping and raising the child herself, or relinquishing it for adoption--without any shaming or looking askance either way.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:37 PM   #229
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I agree. Unfortunately, the law in america you can get an abortion at any time you want for any reason, even if it's a day before when the baby would be born.
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haha ok, I just though everyone knew that

since I don't want to look to far, I cite wikipedia



Abortion law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm seriously starting to question your ability to discuss anything intelligently.


Your wikipedia "source" doesn't back up your first claim that a woman can have an abortion up to a "day before the baby would be born" at all. I'd say that perhaps I missed it, and could you quote it, but we both know you could easily change the wiki page to make it say that.

And secondly, your ridiculous assumption that "everyone knows it" is just lame. By your own previous admission, most people posting in this thread know more than you do about this.

So if you want to be taken seriously at any time ever again here in FYM, you should be much more careful about what you post, both as opinions and as sources.

And one more thing. Wikipedia isn't all that reliable a source. I thought everyone knew that.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:41 PM   #230
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Legal restrictions on later abortion

See also: Late-term abortion
As of 1998, among the 152 most populous countries, 54 either banned abortion entirely or permitted it only to save the life of the pregnant woman.[6] In contrast, another 44 of the 152 most populous countries generally banned late-term abortions after a particular gestational age: 12 weeks (Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cuba, Czech Rep., Denmark, Estonia, France, Georgia, Greece, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Rep., Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Norway, Russian Fed., Slovak Rep., Slovenia, South Africa, Ukraine, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Yugoslavia), 13 weeks (Italy), 14 weeks (Austria, Belgium, Cambodia, Germany, Hungary, and Romania), 18 weeks (Sweden), viability (Netherlands and to some extent the United States), and 24 weeks (Singapore and the United Kingdom [Northern Ireland excluded]).[6]
[edit]Case law
Or is this the paragraph you think backs you up?
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:51 PM   #231
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you can get an abortion at any time you want, there isnt really any laws that restrict it at all. I've looked up these facts. If the mother is threatened sure, but as the law is right now anyone can get an abortion in the third trimester for any reason.
There are many states that ban it. But the reason it's still legal is for those cases of a mother's life being in danger and other extreme cases. Trust me most doctors wouldn't perform an abortion the "day before she was due", but the option is there to protect women's lives.

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But with your point then I guess theres nothing we can do to make laws.
I have no idea what this even means...
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:55 PM   #232
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unless we were to somehow first reframe pregnancy as a casual, thoroughly unremarkable endeavor, one for which it supposedly makes no difference at all when and in what circumstances it happens (and therefore, no motivation to seek to terminate it). Which seems wildly unrealistic,
If you frame it as an absolute then of course it's unrealistic. There are some circumstances where it happens that call for compassion and accountability, not blame and punishment.

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both in the sense that I can't imagine any woman experiencing pregnancy that way, and in the sense that it seems like the broader social consequences of that reframing wouldn't justify whatever increase in the number of women choosing relinquishment might result.
Can you elaborate on the consequences?

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But in a pro-choice context, you're right, being pro-choice should mean supporting the individual woman in whichever choice she makes--having an abortion, keeping and raising the child herself, or relinquishing it for adoption--without any shaming or looking askance either way.
Right. Equally important is to respect other people's views on the value of life and taking proactive measures to minimize unwanted pregnancy and otherwise enabling women wherever possible to choose life - without coercion.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:59 PM   #233
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Pac_Mule, here is a link detailing the various state restrictions on late-term abortions as of January 2009. What federal law hypothetically permits is not the same thing as what individual states are required to permit.

State Policies on Later-Term Abortions (.pdf)


And martha, quit it with the ridicule. Countering his evidence is plenty adequate to make your point.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:09 PM   #234
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ok, so I was somewhat wrong, and I can live with that. But little old vermont has no restrictions...not suprised..

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I have no idea what this even means...
I was suggesting perhaps creating a law somehow that would restrict abortions just because of mild genetic disorders. I realize now that most people would find that silly so never mind.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:13 PM   #235
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And martha, quit it with the ridicule. Countering his evidence is plenty adequate to make your point.
and thanks Im kinda new to debating obviosuly...
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:16 PM   #236
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I was suggesting perhaps creating a law somehow that would restrict abortions just because of mild genetic disorders. I realize now that most people would find that silly so never mind.

The problem with that is there would be no way to define "mild genetic disorders"...
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:24 PM   #237
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The problem with that is there would be no way to define "mild genetic disorders"...
Exactly. And thats the problem. So you have to leave it up to people. And people don't always make the right decisions You can't use the "He wouldn't have had a good life" argument with babies who have something like down syndrome or autism..most of them are quite happy!
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:29 PM   #238
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And martha, quit it with the ridicule.

Ok.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:30 PM   #239
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ok, so I was somewhat wrong, and I can live with that.
Please please please do some research and thinking before you post.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:33 PM   #240
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And people don't always make the right decisions
What's right to you might not be right to everyone.
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