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Old 05-04-2009, 08:30 PM   #196
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If you are pro-Jesus (in the Evangelical sense) then you are more likely to be pro-Torture
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The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.

More than half of people who attend services at least once a week -- 54 percent -- said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is "often" or "sometimes" justified. Only 42 percent of people who "seldom or never" go to services agreed, according to the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified -- more than six in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only four in 10 of them did.

The analysis is based on a Pew Research Center survey of 742 American adults conducted April 14-21. It did not include analysis of groups other than white evangelicals, white non-Hispanic Catholics, white mainline Protestants and the religiously unaffiliated, because the sample size was too small. See results of the survey »

The president of the National Association of Evangelicals, Leith Anderson, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The survey asked: "Do you think the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information can often be justified, sometimes be justified, rarely be justified, or never be justified?"

Roughly half of all respondents -- 49 percent -- said it is often or sometimes justified. A quarter said it never is.

The religious group most likely to say torture is never justified was Protestant denominations -- such as Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians -- categorized as "mainline" Protestants, in contrast to evangelicals. Just over three in 10 of them said torture is never justified. A quarter of the religiously unaffiliated said the same, compared with two in 10 white non-Hispanic Catholics and one in eight evangelicals.
Survey: Support for terror suspect torture differs among the faithful - CNN.com

It makes sense, their symbolism is a replete with sadism.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:35 PM   #197
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The 'religious mind set' allows for all kinds of bad thinking.

Sometimes, I think it requires it.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:08 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
If you are pro-Jesus (in the Evangelical sense) then you are more likely to be pro-Torture
American conservative Christianity is getting further and further from the teachings of Christ...
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:30 AM   #199
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American conservative Christianity is getting further and further from the teachings of Christ...
The Gospel of the Rack is a lovely companion to the Gospel of Wealth.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:28 AM   #200
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American conservative Christianity is getting further and further from the teachings of Christ...
It's terribly sad, and the biggest reason for this is that the true Gospel message can't coexist with the attitude and system of empire this country has been perpetuating for so long now.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:40 PM   #201
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The 'religious mind set' allows for all kinds of bad thinking.

Sometimes, I think it requires it.
What exactly is your precise definition of a "religious mind set"?

I got to church once a week, well I try my best-and I think torture is never justified. Believe it or not I'm capable of good thinking .
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:43 PM   #202
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What exactly is your precise definition of a "religious mind set"?

I got to church once a week, well I try my best-and I think torture is never justified. Believe it or not I'm capable of good thinking .
Would you oppose torture if you didn't go to Church?
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:56 PM   #203
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Would you oppose torture if you didn't go to Church?
I know this wasn't asked of me, but it's an interesting question...

I grew up in the church(although I went though very agnostic times) so it's kind of impossible for me to answer it, but personally I believe it's my faith that makes me dead set against it. I think I would be more on the fence without that upbringing...
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:25 PM   #204
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Early report doesn't recommend charges for torture memos

By Terry Frieden
CNN Justice Producer

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A preliminary internal report on the Justice Department investigation into the authors of the Bush administration's so-called "torture memos" does not call for criminal prosecutions, but indicates the government might urge state bar associations to take sanctions against the memo writers, according to two government sources familiar with the report.

The draft, which now goes to Attorney General Eric Holder for approval or revisions, is expected to be finalized in the coming days.

Sources familiar with the report said investigators for the Justice Department's ethics unit, the Office of Professional Responsibility, has focused heavily on internal communications involving former Office of Legal Counsel lawyers John Yoo, Jay Bybee and Steven Bradbury.

The three attorneys were top officials who provided legal guidance, including permissible interrogation procedures to the CIA and other executive branch agencies. Guidance written by Bybee and Yoo in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, attacks allowed for harsh interrogations techniques which later were withdrawn. The draft report is said to be critical of Yoo and Bybee in particular.

A statement late Tuesday by Sens. Richard Durbin, D-Illinois, and Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island, who received an update from the Justice Department Monday night, appeared to confirm information that Bradbury's role may not be as strongly criticized.

"While we are disappointed to learn that DOJ [Department of Justice] allowed Steven Bradbury to participate in OLC's 'review and response' to the report -- despite the fact that he played a leading role in drafting the memos under review -- we look forward to the prompt completion of this report," the senators said.

The Justice Department update, which was in the form of a letter to the senators, appeared to signal what government sources acknowledged -- that the most likely sanctions against Bybee and Yoo would be potential disciplinary action by state bar associations that could suspend or revoke a law license.
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Bybee is a Federal Judge. Should his law license be revoked?
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:28 PM   #205
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if Bill Clinton lost his law license over a blow job -- holding the executive accountable to the rule of law!!! SHRIEK! -- then the very least that should happen to fucking Bybee and Yoo is the same.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:06 AM   #206
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I'm not sure that I'll ever understand American Christianity.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:08 AM   #207
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I'm not sure that I'll ever understand American Christianity.


it's little more than resentment and quiet desperation masked with sanctimony.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:48 AM   #208
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I think your comment accurately describes too many people who identify themselves as Christian, but I think you paint with too broad a brush. The umbrella term Christianity, even American Christianity, has a diverse spectrum of values and viewpoints.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:24 AM   #209
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I think your comment accurately describes too many people who identify themselves as Christian, but I think you paint with too broad a brush. The umbrella term Christianity, even American Christianity, has a diverse spectrum of values and viewpoints.



you are correct, however, my understanding was that it was implicit that it was political American Christianity at issue.

but you are correct, it was too broad, and my comment was too snarky.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:26 PM   #210
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I think your comment accurately describes too many people who identify themselves as Christian, but I think you paint with too broad a brush. The umbrella term Christianity, even American Christianity, has a diverse spectrum of values and viewpoints.
Thank you-and I appreciate that you make comments about the religious stereotypes that can exist here.

And yes I would oppose torture even if I didn't go to church, because I have morals and beliefs that come from places other than church and religion. But my religious beliefs also make me opposed to it.
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