Obama Ends War! - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-16-2009, 04:13 PM   #16
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,655
Local Time: 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
sex between consenting adults is not illegal. so knock yourself out with all the sodomy you can get.
Not every state...
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 04:21 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 09:05 PM
this discussion is about what the Federal laws or policies should be.

I think i do recall Scalia going nuts when the Supreme court would not uphold a sodomy law
__________________

__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 05:29 AM   #18
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooropop40 View Post
The war on drugs is an utter failure, but to truly stop it there needs to be more drastic changes.. such as legalizing pot, which is something that obama said he is not interested in doing.
I'm sorry but I don't understand this. How do you fight drugs by making them legal? It's like fighting terrorism by letting people blow up buildings.

I'd like to understand.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 08:56 AM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Criminalising users and creating a police state to find and punish individuals who are not harming others is only productive in increasing crime rates, it fuels a black market for drugs, and ensures that some citizens entire futures can be forfeited due to a drug conviction (and what do they do when they can't secure a proper job after being released from prison?).

I don't think that blanket legalisation is tenable for society, I do think that decriminalisation of soft drugs like marijuana, MDMA, and hallucinogens coupled with a scheme to supply pure and dosed hard drugs (or safer substitutes) to registered addicts would be less harmful than the current situation which funnels money to both criminal organisations and militarised police.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 09:40 AM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Se7en's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: all around in the dark - everywhere
Posts: 3,531
Local Time: 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Criminalising users and creating a police state to find and punish individuals who are not harming others is only productive in increasing crime rates, it fuels a black market for drugs, and ensures that some citizens entire futures can be forfeited due to a drug conviction (and what do they do when they can't secure a proper job after being released from prison?).

I don't think that blanket legalisation is tenable for society, I do think that decriminalisation of soft drugs like marijuana, MDMA, and hallucinogens coupled with a scheme to supply pure and dosed hard drugs (or safer substitutes) to registered addicts would be less harmful than the current situation which funnels money to both criminal organisations and militarised police.
__________________
Se7en is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 06:24 PM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
onebloodonelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,106
Local Time: 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Criminalising users and creating a police state to find and punish individuals who are not harming others is only productive in increasing crime rates, it fuels a black market for drugs, and ensures that some citizens entire futures can be forfeited due to a drug conviction (and what do they do when they can't secure a proper job after being released from prison?).

I don't think that blanket legalisation is tenable for society, I do think that decriminalisation of soft drugs like marijuana, MDMA, and hallucinogens coupled with a scheme to supply pure and dosed hard drugs (or safer substitutes) to registered addicts would be less harmful than the current situation which funnels money to both criminal organisations and militarised police.
Exactly. Thousands of people die because of the drug trade every year, and this wouldn't happen if there wasn't a black market for them. And, I also agree that soft drugs should be decriminalized at the very least, as well as following the Netherlands' model for supplying drugs to addicts. They are then guaranteed clean needles, pure drugs, and help to quit, if wanted. That is a humane way to deal with drug problems, not throwing people in jails with rapists and murderers.

Also, is it really productive for American kids to be denied financial aid for college because they have a possession of marijuana charge (or any drug charge, marijuana's probably just the most common) on their record? No, absolutely not. Especially when there can be underage drinking tickets on one's record, not affecting a thing for students.
__________________
onebloodonelife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 02:32 AM   #22
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebloodonelife View Post
Exactly. Thousands of people die because of the drug trade every year, and this wouldn't happen if there wasn't a black market for them.


I really don't want to be difficult but I'm still confused.

You say that the thousands of deaths wouldn't happen if drugs were legal. That's like saying that there would be no more thefts if people willingly gave up their posessions to anyone who asked.

Again I ask - why not fight the crime instead of looking for ways to make it ok?
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 06:58 AM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
onebloodonelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,106
Local Time: 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post


I really don't want to be difficult but I'm still confused.

You say that the thousands of deaths wouldn't happen if drugs were legal. That's like saying that there would be no more thefts if people willingly gave up their posessions to anyone who asked.

Again I ask - why not fight the crime instead of looking for ways to make it ok?
I'm not saying that none would occur, but I bet you it would be greatly reduced. Around 7,500 Mexicans die every year because of the U.S. drug trade. If we (the gov't.) were to take control of that market, it would be regulated, making the illegal demand go down. Will there still be a black market? Sure, there is for everything, but if I had the option to buy my weed from a place that could guarantee its quality (and would probably be cheaper, because the supply could be overflowed if it were regulated as well) and was safe/legal, I certainly would.

Because addiction is a disease and a health issue, not a criminal one, in my opinion. I also believe it's my right to decide what and what doesn't go in my body, not the government's.

I'm not saying to make drug use okay. I AM saying to educate people about drugs (NOT propaganda, true information), take away the taboos, because those are also reasons why people get hurt doing this stuff. If people had access to safe/pure drugs and were taught how to use them properly (and yes, I certainly think they can be, I'd be happy to talk about my experiences on hallucinogens, if you really want), I think that would be ideal. I understand that everyone is not going to use them well, and that's a fact that has to be realized, and they AREN'T being used well now, while they're illegal, but are also being used responsibly by plenty of people.

I should also clarify that I do think there should be differences in treatment of "soft" drugs and "hard" drugs, but none should be criminal. I explained myself a bit further in an above comment about decriminalization and the Netherlands model for drug addicts.
__________________
onebloodonelife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 12:45 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
BluRmGrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leather Heaven
Posts: 7,808
Local Time: 01:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Again I ask - why not fight the crime instead of looking for ways to make it ok?
Because the 'crime', at least as far as marijuana is generally concerned, is 1) consentual; 2) non-violent; and 3) only criminal because the government doesn't control the growth (and therefore the taxation) of marijuana. At least that's my take on the issue.

I mean, I can understand the concern among certain circles that legalizing marijuana is just opening a Pandora's box of increased deviant behavior, as millions of 'junkies' wreak havoc on society, doing whatever it takes to support their habits but I think that's mostly sabre rattling by moral superiortists who believe it's their place to determine what vices everyone else is allowed.

I believe the legalization of marijuana, with similar taxation and laws as currently apply to alcohol, would be a huge boon to the economy - whether in good times or bad. The proceeds could even be used to run treatment/rehabilitation centers for those addicted to stronger drugs, instead of placing those users in our prisons & adding the burden of clothing, feeding, and housing them to our already over-crowded penal system.

And in case anyone was wondering, I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a pot smoker. So my support of its legalization doesn't make my eyes glaze over in smoked-up anticipation of what could be.
__________________
BluRmGrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 12:56 PM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebloodonelife View Post

Because addiction is a disease and a health issue, not a criminal one, in my opinion. I also believe it's my right to decide what and what doesn't go in my body, not the government's.
Except that it's on the backs of the other taxpayers to take care of you once you have chosen what goes into your own body. In that sense, drug addiction is costly to the entire society, and would continue to be costly regardless of the criminal element, which obviously has its own separate and significant costs.

For the record, I am all for de-criminalizing marijuana. But where it comes to legalization of hard drugs, you almost never hear anyone discuss the healthcare or employment/labour issues that come with it. And let's not pretend like they don't exist.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 07:07 PM   #26
Blue Crack Addict
 
onebloodonelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,106
Local Time: 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Except that it's on the backs of the other taxpayers to take care of you once you have chosen what goes into your own body. In that sense, drug addiction is costly to the entire society, and would continue to be costly regardless of the criminal element, which obviously has its own separate and significant costs.

For the record, I am all for de-criminalizing marijuana. But where it comes to legalization of hard drugs, you almost never hear anyone discuss the healthcare or employment/labour issues that come with it. And let's not pretend like they don't exist.
I completely agree. On the other hand, there are also plenty of health issues that come with things like obesity that taxpayers have to pay for as well. I would support treatment first and foremost for hard drug addicts.

For me, the main thing is educating people about the consequences of drug use, which isn't being done truthfully in America today. We're taught to believe that smoking pot will make you dreadfully unmotivated, or that LSD stays in your spinal fluid forever. Educating people about drug use would probably result in more responsible drug use, as seen in the Dutch model, where they have lower rates of "problem drug users" and lower drug use rates than the U.S. across the board.
__________________
onebloodonelife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 11:38 PM   #27
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post


I really don't want to be difficult but I'm still confused.

You say that the thousands of deaths wouldn't happen if drugs were legal. That's like saying that there would be no more thefts if people willingly gave up their posessions to anyone who asked.

Again I ask - why not fight the crime instead of looking for ways to make it ok?
Well, for starters, it has to be re-focused. Clearly, lumping marijuana in with hard drugs and propaganda tactics have not been effective in stopping it.

Making marijuana legal isn't "making it OK." It's more like, "recognizing that there's a huge difference between marijuana and heroin/cocaine."
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 08:04 AM   #28
Refugee
 
zooropop40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Interference is called Interference because it interferes on my ability to live a normal life...
Posts: 1,583
Local Time: 12:05 AM
basically because too many people are put into jail and having tax money being spent simply by minor drug offenses. and because of all the potential economic uses for hemp (not necessarily recreational), and because we could tax weed and the government would make money.

Since its not really dangerous, and should just be used at someone's personal home, I dont see why it is illegal when drinking is technically worse for you and is legal?

It would stop us from spending money on a useless battle against something that the government can never stop people from doing.
__________________
zooropop40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 02:23 PM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 09:05 PM
I read the lead article in this thread a few days back,

and I did not see anything to suggest Obama would decriminalize pot yet alone legalize it and tax it. Won't happen, except in stoner movie plots and your pipe dreams.



I expect him to end the War on Gays though, eventually.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2009, 09:29 AM   #30
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfan26 View Post
Well, for starters, it has to be re-focused. Clearly, lumping marijuana in with hard drugs and propaganda tactics have not been effective in stopping it.

Making marijuana legal isn't "making it OK." It's more like, "recognizing that there's a huge difference between marijuana and heroin/cocaine."
Plus, there are medical uses for marijuana.
__________________

__________________
A stor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com