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Old 01-29-2009, 09:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
Nah, I think you can at least define by the degree to which some self-proclaimed believer deviates from the source scripture.

To take the Christian tradition, just for instance; Jesus preached certain things, in the written gospels. Those things are not particularly ambiguous or hard to understand. It is not difficult to spot when someone is preaching the very opposite. Even if they do call themselves Christian.

Now, whether those written gospels are good or not, I'll leave to the reader. But 'true' will have to be judged in relation to them, since they are the source document.
Thank you. This much better expresses what I wanted to say in Iron Horse's threads. Ha.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:35 AM   #17
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Ahmadinejad's a fool. I can't believe any one actually takes him seriously. It's not like he even has any real power.
Totally agree with you.

Yet we teeter on the edge of WWIII with military action on the table and Israel desperate for approval on pre-emptive strikes with nuclear weapons.

Obama's olive branch is smart and very necessary.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:42 AM   #18
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Ahmadinejad's a fool. I can't believe any one actually takes him seriously. It's not like he even has any real power.
He's a fool, but to a point. Some of what he has said has been misinterpreted in translation.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:40 AM   #19
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Totally agree with you.

Yet we teeter on the edge of WWIII with military action on the table and Israel desperate for approval on pre-emptive strikes with nuclear weapons.

Obama's olive branch is smart and very necessary.
I totally agree. None of us want to see WW 3.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:45 AM   #20
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I think what Obama said is a step in the right direction. I also think it helps that he has Muslim relatives and lived in Indonesia.

But watch, anti-Obama people would say this is proof that he is a Muslim
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:56 AM   #21
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But watch, anti-Obama people would say this is proof that he is a Muslim
I'm sure some have said that already

I demand a birth certificate
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:58 AM   #22
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I think what Obama said is a step in the right direction. I also think it helps that he has Muslim relatives and lived in Indonesia.

But watch, anti-Obama people would say this is proof that he is a Muslim
Pearl, I think you are absolutely right. But, for the anti-Obama people, even if Obama was Muslim by faith, so what? That wouldn't have changed my vote for him. I still feel he is the best person qualified for the job. I don't understand why the "right wing" makes such a big deal as to where a presidential goes to worship, or doesn't.

Mr. Bush has gotten America into a horrible mess, especially with the Middle East and we need someone to help get us out of if.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:00 PM   #23
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I'm so glad I voted for Obama. Finally we have a president who has his head on straight.
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Old 01-29-2009, 01:33 PM   #24
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Isnt Obama's middle name Hussein/Hussain?

He should drop the Barack when touring the middle east - get a few more fans on his side
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Old 01-29-2009, 03:22 PM   #25
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Yes now we (he) can say it in the open.

His father was a Muslim. He went to school with Muslims. Members of his family are Muslims. There will be Muslims staying in the Whitehouse.

There will be a Muslim Prayer Room in the Whitehouse. Perhaps the Lincoln Bedroom? (probably not). Does it have to have a window facing East? It that required?


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Old 01-29-2009, 03:58 PM   #26
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There will be a Muslim Prayer Room in the Whitehouse. Perhaps the Lincoln Bedroom? (probably not). Does it have to have a window facing East? It that required?
I believe it is a requirement for Muslims to face East, this way they are facing Mecca, the holy city of Islam.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:34 PM   #27
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I actually attended a brown-bag lecture awhile back about qibla location (how the precise direction to the Kaaba is determined); turns out there are tons of qibla locators on the Internet as well as a considerable amount of controversy about the proper method to use. Even among the Muslims attending there were some rather emphatic differences as to whether one ought to pray facing southeast or northeast (i.e. from here in the American Midwest). No mention of there having to be a window though, I've never heard that. Jews pray facing Jerusalem three times a day (the Amidah) but here in the US at least, we just settle for generally facing east; I've never heard of anyone using locators or debates about directional methods or anything like that.

Not that this has anything to do with the thread topic...
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:09 PM   #28
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dont some prayer mats have a compass?

like this
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:45 PM   #29
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They discussed those too, I can't really remember what the problem with them was said to be...deviation of magnetic north from true north, something like that? Honestly I'm a moron when it comes to spatial relations, so I couldn't follow much of the more technical stuff that was said...all that really stayed with me from the talk was 'Wow, this is all a lot more complicated and controversial than I'd ever have assumed such a simple-seeming thing could be.' It was a specialized cartography lecture basically, pros and cons of various projection models and how to reconcile them with classic Islamic texts on the subject, stuff like that. I don't think the compasses are usually physically attached to the prayer mat, it's just a separate device you carry.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:14 PM   #30
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I actually attended a brown-bag lecture awhile back about qibla location (how the precise direction to the Kaaba is determined); turns out there are tons of qibla locators on the Internet as well as a considerable amount of controversy about the proper method to use. Even among the Muslims attending there were some rather emphatic differences as to whether one ought to pray facing southeast or northeast (i.e. from here in the American Midwest). No mention of there having to be a window though, I've never heard that. Jews pray facing Jerusalem three times a day (the Amidah) but here in the US at least, we just settle for generally facing east; I've never heard of anyone using locators or debates about directional methods or anything like that.

Not that this has anything to do with the thread topic...
The main consensus is that you face the direction which if you "walk" in that direction you'll reach Mecca (shortest distance). Of course you can't be "totally" perfect, so people pray facing northeast. If you've ever been to Europe on a plane, or Asia, you'll notice the pilote takes you on a north east direction instead of going merely "east". It's much shorter to go north east than it is to go east. Has to do with the curvature of the earth - it being round.
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