No long answers on exams anymore?

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love_u2_adam

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In Alberta we just got a new policy for all sciences and math departments(for high school). The alberta education minster has decided to eliminate long answer question from provincial and diploma exams. Why you ask, well to cut down costs of course! I don't care, I'm pretty happy, i hate long answer. I'm done anyways but still cutting down on exams for teenagers just makes me a little sick and wonder what's going to happen to the kids who are younger then me? Are they going to get a worse deal on this? I had 12 years of long answer, I'm going to be happy i don't have to do another one (had to take my bio 30....). It's what made me almost fail my psychology exam, and most exams i take (guess why... because i have shitty grammar!!!) but i know my content like the back of my hand. I'm a unique individual I don't learn like normal people, so i really hope this doesn't affect the next generation and or mine.

So what's your opinion on this?
 
sounds pretty stupid to me, especially if it's for cost cutting. i was never a fan of long answers, but for all those who hate them there's those who really earn their marks and rise above the pack because they can apply their knowledge in long answer.

that said i was an english kid, so i fully support no long answer, for maths especially :lol:
 
i will admit, the essay questions on tests do kind of tick me off because it usually takes months for me to find out my grade. however, i feel students will be missing out on something vital by not having to write essays for tests anymore.
 
Wait...how are you supposed to bullshit your way through tests now? :ohmy:
 
one of the only classes i had in college that i actually enjoyed and learned something from was all essay tests. it was on world history from the industrial revolution to present day. covered all regions of the world and their histories from then until now. the instructor made it very interesting, but you had to take tons of notes and couldnt daydream at all. for tests he would give us 15 terms on a sheet of paper and we would have to pick 10 of them and write as much as we could about them. he gave us a 1-10 based on our responses and the test was out of 100. very challenging, but i loved it. took it last summer and was one of my last classes of college. think i barely missed an A. :angry:

i gotta have my mom find that notebook and bring it down to me. :lol: it was probably almost full of notes. great info to review.
 
Comprehension versus memorization.

It so often seems society no longer values learning, just the ability to regurgitate what you've been told and forget it the next day.
Not that essay tests are the end all and be all, but it is a sign.

Besides, multiple choice questions don't get part marks.

It's like in math, would you prefer to get marked on your final answer only, or show your work?
 
It's like in math, would you prefer to get marked on your final answer only, or show your work?

:lol:

I was horrified the first time I had to hand in how I got my answers on a math exam. I generally got the correct answers, but apparently managed to do so in a manner unknown to the rest of mankind. While those who actually knew what they were doing might take four to six steps to solve a problem, I would often wander all over the place, taking 15-20 steps to get to an end. Can I help it if I like taking the scenic route? :lol:

I did figure out that I could often eek out a passing grade by getting partial credit for every problem, even if I only actually completely finished a relatively small number of them. :)
 
I had almost exclusively multiple choice (multiple guess?) exams in undergrad and then essay-type open-book exams in law school. I preferred the latter by miles.
 
My high school and college was into the whole liberal arts, seminar style classes so most of my college exams, at least junior and senior year were essays. I always did better on those, but usually preferred multiple choice b/c the profs could have them Scantron'd within 24 hrs and we wouldn't have to wait forever for the prof or TA to grade. The scores I got on my standardized tests (ACTs) never matched my actual grades, but I always hated writing pages and pages even if I did better (ugh, theology exams were the worst!!).

We must have done a lot more writing at my HS than others b/c when I was a TA in college I could not believe how few students could write a thesis statement and structure even the most basic of essays (I TA'd for a half-semester class that touched on how to research, structure a paper, prepare works cited, etc).
 
The teacher that I was out late with on Thursday night could never have had time to wake up before school and correct a bunch of long answer tests. She got the multiple choice ones done over breakfast though.
 
:lol:

I was horrified the first time I had to hand in how I got my answers on a math exam. I generally got the correct answers, but apparently managed to do so in a manner unknown to the rest of mankind. While those who actually knew what they were doing might take four to six steps to solve a problem, I would often wander all over the place, taking 15-20 steps to get to an end. Can I help it if I like taking the scenic route? :lol:

I did figure out that I could often eek out a passing grade by getting partial credit for every problem, even if I only actually completely finished a relatively small number of them. :)

Awww! :lol:

Well, for me, in HS my teacher would often only look at the final answer, if you got it right, you got full marks. But, if you got it wrong, she would go back through your answer and follow your logic...at the very least you got partial marks (and thus rewarded for an honest effort, which I think was encouraging for those who had trouble rather than getting a zero). And if your only mistake was one of those stupid ones ( 2 cubed is 6, right? :happy: ) then you would only usually lose half a mark.

Also, when we had to solve equations and stuff, I too would sometimes take the scenic route....we never got docked marks for it, she would just draw an arrow connecting the more direct route.

Of course, this was the same teacher who enforced no calculators. Which while I thought it was a pain in the ass, it was a good skill to practice. Especially given increasing reports that not only are university students shitty at writing, they can't do math either. (a whole other lengthy debate)

My high school and college was into the whole liberal arts, seminar style classes so most of my college exams, at least junior and senior year were essays. I always did better on those, but usually preferred multiple choice b/c the profs could have them Scantron'd within 24 hrs and we wouldn't have to wait forever for the prof or TA to grade. The scores I got on my standardized tests (ACTs) never matched my actual grades, but I always hated writing pages and pages even if I did better (ugh, theology exams were the worst!!).

We must have done a lot more writing at my HS than others b/c when I was a TA in college I could not believe how few students could write a thesis statement and structure even the most basic of essays (I TA'd for a half-semester class that touched on how to research, structure a paper, prepare works cited, etc).

Well, considering how long some of my profs took to get scantron results to us, it made zero difference to me. Hell, sometimes the long answer profs got marks back sooner.
And depending on the size of the class, and how many TAs there are (and how qualified they are), long answer is not that difficult for them to handle. Especially if they limit how long the long answers are. Ie. a short paragraph about something, or a definition, rather than a full blown essay.
All the benefits of asking for long answer, yet none of the length.
(unless you had me :reject: )

And university's have been complaining for years about the writing skills of students, and I don't think it's gotten better, despite efforts to do so. When I read emails from fellow students - especially one's to prof, my brain hurts and I die a little on the inside.
:sad:

The teacher that I was out late with on Thursday night could never have had time to wake up before school and correct a bunch of long answer tests. She got the multiple choice ones done over breakfast though.

Time management? *shrug*

Some teachers used to give us our MC marks, and the long answer marks a little later. Most of us could comprehend why long answer takes longer to mark.

It comes down to class sizes too...smaller classes make long answer more manageable. Meanwhile, I know a prof with a class of 600 who still insists on giving all long answer tests. It's insane, and the marking suffers because of it...too much skimming, etc. Lots of complaints.
In that case MC really is the only way to go.
(but then, that leads me back to my arguments about how universities are run and the value of learning....)
 
The teacher that I was out late with on Thursday night could never have had time to wake up before school and correct a bunch of long answer tests. She got the multiple choice ones done over breakfast though.

Somehow as a member of a profession that routinely works 80-90 hours a week, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this line of argument. My Mom and brother are both teachers, they both have about 3 hours during the school day of prep time during which they can grade materials, among other things. And they are done their day at about 2:30 pm. Even when my brother coaches, he's home by 5. I don't remember a day I was home by 5.

(My brother would be the first to tell you that he is perfectly capable of grading within a reasonable amount of time, and he teaches high school English, where there really is a lot of volume.)
 
And depending on the size of the class, and how many TAs there are (and how qualified they are), long answer is not that difficult for them to handle. Especially if they limit how long the long answers are. Ie. a short paragraph about something, or a definition, rather than a full blown essay.
All the benefits of asking for long answer, yet none of the length.
(unless you had me :reject: )

The profs that loved essays knew no limits on their long answers! Not sure how other colleges test, but ours sold "blue books" at the bookstore, which were basically 30 cent notebooks with maybe ten pages or so and you would buy one for each exam, except my theology prof who required us to have three. :crack: I remember writing one gender studies exam and my hand killed so bad (I write very neat but have never held my pen properly) so I asked the prof if I could go next door to the computer lab and just type my answers for christ sake. Amazingly, she said yes so half the class got up and went next door to type the rest of the exam.

Ironically our accounting exams always took the longest to get back even though it was mostly math. If the final number is correct there's no reason to have to check the entire problem.

Yeah I don't buy the time argument either. Phil is a teacher and he works weeknights nights as well. Albeit he teaches either elementary or high school special ed so he is not grading 10 page essay exams, but he does a lot of prep work. Even when he is subbing part of the day and the pay includes a "prep time". The college profs can just hire TAs to do the grunt work. Considering their salaries I would hope they are not spending hours each day grading exams!
 
Somehow as a member of a profession that routinely works 80-90 hours a week, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this line of argument. My Mom and brother are both teachers, they both have about 3 hours during the school day of prep time during which they can grade materials, among other things. And they are done their day at about 2:30 pm. Even when my brother coaches, he's home by 5. I don't remember a day I was home by 5.

(My brother would be the first to tell you that he is perfectly capable of grading within a reasonable amount of time, and he teaches high school English, where there really is a lot of volume.)


I wasn't suggesting sympathy, just the thought that maybe this kind of testing is born out of laziness. But certainly not by all teachers.
 
90% of my exams are also like this. Even if you have to make a very long and difficult calculation, there's always a casket at the bottom of the paper where you should write your result. The theoretical part is tested by MC questions. In the end, a failure rate of 70% is normal :|
 
In a way it sounds like, "Since the students can't write in their own language properly anymore, we won't bother them with that and just ask for multiple choice."

Our exams always have only a small amount of MC questions. I think profs officially aren't even allowed to do MC, but usually there is one block of maybe ten or 15 MC questions. All else is long answer, though mostly it shouldn't be more than half a page. My problem always is, though, that one, I can't write very fast and two, I tend to get a bit long in my answers. So I frequently run out of time. :(
And my handwriting is so bad I'm always sorry for the Professor having to read it. But I can't write better, especially not on the tenth page towards the end of a four hours exam. I prefer term papers by a mile. :)
 
^Why aren't they allowed to do MC questions?
So far as I know, the new Master rules concerning MC are also relevant for Bachelor students now. Usually you get minus points for a wrong answer, now you have questions with 6 or 7 possibilities but only one is the right one and wrong answers don't count anymore.
 
I don't have a clue. But they always say that MC are officially not welcome. Still, we often have a few, so it doesn't seem to be a strict rule.
So far we had the traditional system, i.e. four possibilities, sometimes, but not always, more than one possible right answer and no minus points if wrong. Though even that depends on the professor.
Another professor does exams where she asks something and we have to say Right, because... or Wrong, because...
 
Somehow as a member of a profession that routinely works 80-90 hours a week, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this line of argument. My Mom and brother are both teachers, they both have about 3 hours during the school day of prep time during which they can grade materials, among other things. And they are done their day at about 2:30 pm. Even when my brother coaches, he's home by 5. I don't remember a day I was home by 5.

(My brother would be the first to tell you that he is perfectly capable of grading within a reasonable amount of time, and he teaches high school English, where there really is a lot of volume.)


lol, your profession also makes 2-3xs what teachers make. Teachers are also expected to stay after school and help students/tutor/plan, all unpaid. All that said, I can't complain about my job because I knew what I was in for and I happen to be very happy with my choice of profession. I usually work a 10 hour day.

Anyway, my experience as a teacher has been not at all similar to your mother's or your brother's. :shrug: I don't know any teachers that have 3 free hours a day.
 
Anyway, my experience as a teacher has been not at all similar to your mother's or your brother's. :shrug: I don't know any teachers that have 3 free hours a day.

In Ontario, high school teachers teach 3 periods a day, and have 2 periods free. About 10 years ago, the Conservative government introduced a Bill that would require them to teach 4 periods and have only 1 off (which would have left them with about 1 hour and 20-25 minutes free per day). The union immediately went on strike, for a period of 3 weeks, the government backed down, they got substantial raises and as a part of collective bargaining, were also assured that they would not have to do a 4/1, but stuck with the 3/2. So that is how they have that amount of time off, and this is a province-wide matter in the most populous province in the nation.

This adds up to about 3 hours of prep time a day. Sometimes, my brother will have to give up a half of one of those periods (so 40 minutes or so) for cafeteria duty. He is on cafeteria duty for one week every 3 or 4 weeks.

I have the utmost respect for teachers. But I also remember very well not getting assignments back for 3, 4, 5 weeks (in fact there are STILL outstanding papers from my high school English classes that I don't have back, and this is more than a decade later...). It's unprofessional, and it's bad time management. I don't think that teaching has to be run like the private sector, but at the same time, I absolutely get the frustration of those who say that they don't get things back in a timely manner, and I do think there is a very large laziness factor involved in exclusively multiple choice exams, as has been pointed out by others on this thread.
 
personally, when it comes to taking a test, it really doesn't bother me whether the questions are fill in the blank, multiple choice, short answer, or long answer. for me, either i know the material or i don't. though in terms of grading i prefer others over long answer just because like i said, those take longer to grade.

i'm taking two college classes at the moment and both involve lots of essay writing. so at least at my college, long answers are still alive and well. :)
 
long answer/essay questions actually make you think, which in this day and age has become, like, gay or something.
 
If the institutional education system's primary goal was educating children, summer vacation would have disappeared a long time ago.

Scheduling and exam rankings accommodate the system (teachers and adminstrators).

With MC, you can skim the teaching and learning and ride the outcome probabilities on a bell curve. Yee-ha.
 
Somehow as a member of a profession that routinely works 80-90 hours a week, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this line of argument. My Mom and brother are both teachers, they both have about 3 hours during the school day of prep time during which they can grade materials, among other things. And they are done their day at about 2:30 pm. Even when my brother coaches, he's home by 5. I don't remember a day I was home by 5.

(My brother would be the first to tell you that he is perfectly capable of grading within a reasonable amount of time, and he teaches high school English, where there really is a lot of volume.)

Wow. 3 hours of prep? I'd kill for that. I got home from work at 8 tonight, was planning to be back in the classroom by 7 (though it this rate it's going to be more like 8) tomorrow morning. Home by 5? Day done at 2:30? If only!

Of course my 1.5 hour commute each way doesn't help (though tonight I stayed here in Columbus instead of driving home). More than anything I'd like to have more prep time. All I get is a half hour on Monday and 40 minutes on Thursday. I feel like the quality of my lessons really suffer as a result.
 
excuse me?

Ok, being smart and studying hard are often thought of by some young people as uncool, or "gay" as highschoolers say. And futhermore, long answer/essay questions always seemed to be a big pain in the ass, rather than looked at as a challenge.

Make more sense? I guess my bitter/smartass ramblings don't always make sense :lol:
 
If the institutional education system's primary goal was educating children, summer vacation would have disappeared a long time ago.

Yikes! :yikes:

I am so glad I went to school years ago. I think I would have blown my brains out if I had year round school.
 
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