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Old 06-24-2009, 06:59 PM   #1
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Nixon's view of abortion

President Richard Nixon said it was 'necessary' to abort mixed-race babies, tapes reveal - Telegraph

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Commenting privately on the landmark 1973 Supreme Court ruling Roe vs Wade, which decriminalised abortion in the US, the then-president said he worried that access to a legal abortion could lead to "permissiveness" because "it breaks the family" but thought them justified in certain cases.

"There are times when an abortion is necessary," he told his aide Chuck Colson. "I know that. When you have a black and a white." Mr Colson offered that rape might also make an abortion legitimate, prompting Mr Nixon to respond: "Or a rape."

I guess this will be a tricky topic for some FYM'rs. However, logically it seems to me that no abortion on demand advocate can condemn Nixon's views on this without being accused of a double standard.

I disagree with Nixon on this, and strongly condemn his racist view that abortion should be available to parents purely on the basis that they didn't like the colour of skin of their offspring. Where does it end? Pretty soon, with scientific advancements, we could have parents who abort their babies because they do not meet a certain IQ level, or whatever.

Confusing, gang? Not as black or white as some paint it, wha'?
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:12 PM   #2
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I've seen some discussion recently about selective abortion, and I don't think that's right. But when you're for reproductive rights, you can't start making judgement calls about when it's right or wrong for someone to have an abortion.

But if the mother still has that choice (and bringing this specific situation into the mix) one could assume that a mother who's already had sex with someone of a different race is probably not a racist asshole who's going to abort because "oh noez, mixed-race baby!"

But some people are pretty messed up in the head, so it wouldn't surprise me that there might exist a person who would think "Well, I'll have sex with them, but no way am I having a mixed-race baby!"

Wow, I'm rambling. And that might not even make any sense.

So, to summarize: Richard Nixon was a racist asshole.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:12 PM   #3
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...Not as black or white as some paint it, if you'll pardon the pun, you mean.

And with that, I step out of this debate.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:18 PM   #4
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In 1973 I was 17 and living in Los Angeles.

Nixon was no worse than most of the people of his generation. Such as, John and Bobby Kennedy.


I am not excusing the racists, sexists and anti-gay remarks that were prevalent in that era.

You will see it in the ads and movies if you look for it.

Madmen T V series does a pretty decent job re-creating some of it.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:33 PM   #5
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How is this even a tricky topic? It's a pointless topic.

Is this what you consider a "gotcha" thread? Do you honestly think you've uncovered some great hypocrisy here?
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
How is this even a tricky topic? It's a pointless topic.

Is this what you consider a "gotcha" thread? Do you honestly think you've uncovered some great hypocrisy here?
It's tricky for you, because it exposes that extremes of liberalism trend towards fascism.

Supporting no restrictions on abortion whatsoever is an extreme point of view - but not on FYM. My view is in agreement with the majority of the US public.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
But if the mother still has that choice (and bringing this specific situation into the mix) one could assume that a mother who's already had sex with someone of a different race is probably not a racist asshole who's going to abort because "oh noez, mixed-race baby!"
Although--given the era--frankly it wouldn't surprise me if what Nixon was more envisioning when he said that was actually a scenario where an (unmarried) white girl or young woman gets pregnant with a black man's child, then is forced by her family to have an abortion because 'No daughter/sister/etc. of mine is gonna have some --'s baby'.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:48 PM   #8
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It's tricky for you, because it exposes that extremes of liberalism trend towards fascism.
How does it expose this except for in the confides of your mind?

This scenario is horrible. So if I find a wrong reason to justify something that means I'm exposing a hypocrisy? What world do you live in?

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Supporting no restrictions on abortion whatsoever is an extreme point of view - but not on FYM. My view is in agreement with the majority of the US public.
And majorities are always right.

I'm learning so much today.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
In 1973 I was 17 and living in Los Angeles.

Nixon was no worse than most of the people of his generation. Such as, John and Bobby Kennedy.


I am not excusing the racists, sexists and anti-gay remarks that were prevalent in that era.

You will see it in the ads and movies if you look for it.

Madmen T V series does a pretty decent job re-creating some of it.
I was the sixteen, during the same year, living in Baltimore, Md. and your are right.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:12 PM   #10
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Good thing he never got Obama's mama to abort her mixed race child
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Although--given the era--frankly it wouldn't surprise me if what Nixon was more envisioning when he said that was actually a scenario where an (unmarried) white girl or young woman gets pregnant with a black man's child, then is forced by her family to have an abortion because 'No daughter/sister/etc. of mine is gonna have some --'s baby'.
Hmm. I suppose so, but the way the quote reads it doesn't hint at a lot of nuance behind the comment, you know?
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:47 PM   #12
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I like the point.

All of these moral debates, abortion, marriage, etc... require a line to be drawn somewhere, no?

Is there a line for reproduction rights? Is there a line for marriage? Or should it simply be up to the indivual, all the time?

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:04 PM   #13
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Or should it simply be up to the indivual, all the time?

Yes.... ?
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by A stor View Post
I was the sixteen, during the same year, living in Baltimore, Md. and your are right.
my mom was 20 and in baltimore, but yeah. racism was still pretty prevalent in those days. i can't exactly say i'm shocked by what nixon said, though i don't think any less of him as it's pretty hard to.
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:20 PM   #15
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I like the point.

Is there a line for reproduction rights? Is there a line for marriage? Or should it simply be up to the indivual, all the time?

You do?

Well here's what I wrote in the other thread where he typed the same exact thing:

Quote:
We can't place restrictions because how would you do so? You can't prove rape in all scenarios, you can't prove if it's for racism views, etc... So if you believe abortion is ok in scenarios of rape then you have to support choice, there's no way around it. Are you going to make women prove it in court, tie them up for months and then if she's found to be in deed raped have a late term abortion?

To me you are for choice or you are hard line there is no scenario under the sun. That's pretty much it, the rest is just debating hypotheticals.
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