Nixon's view of abortion - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-25-2009, 12:08 AM   #16
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 03:55 PM
So let me get this straight - if pro-choice advocates agree that it's okay for a woman to terminate a pregnancy that resulted from a mixed race sexual encounter, we're racist, just like Richard Nixon?

Any woman should have that option, and the reasons are none of our business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post

I guess this will be a tricky topic for some FYM'rs.
Only for you, it seems.
__________________

__________________
VintagePunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 01:15 AM   #17
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Hmm. I suppose so, but the way the quote reads it doesn't hint at a lot of nuance behind the comment, you know?
I understand what you're saying, but actually I was more deriving that from speculating about the broader social context informing the discussion, not assumptions about his unspoken thought process. It's 1973, 6 years since Loving v. Virginia legalized interracial marriage; just 10 months since the Pill was legalized for unmarried women; tensions between the youth counterculture and the socially conservative Old Guard (Nixon's base) are still running fairly high; and you have what for the times are these two moderately sexist, moderately racist older white men (both with daughters) trading reactions to Roe v. Wade. (Nixon: "Abortions encourage permissiveness. A girl gets knocked up...she goes down to the doctor, wants to get an abortion for $5 or whatever." Colson laments that yes, abortions encourage "permissiveness" and "promiscuousness"; Nixon assents, "It breaks the family.") This is a paternalistic criticism of abortion, based on notions of women's character and proper role within the family, rather than 'do fetuses have rights.' Then you have this dutiful recognition that, naturally, the sensible man realizes there are times when it's "necessary"...like when it's "a black and a white," for example. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to imagine that one possible mutually understood (racist, sexist) subtext here might've been: You know how it is, the circles kids fall in with these days; your girl could really get herself in a lot of trouble, and having certain...backups around means you can rescue her from a world of shame for everyone.

I'm not saying I'm convinced of that by any means. But honestly it does seem to me as plausible as the only other interpretation I can think of, which is that he literally and categorically meant 'Now of course, any woman pregnant with a mixed-race baby should be getting an abortion.' Maybe. On the one hand Nixon was, so far as I know, consistent and sincere in considering legal segregation one of the greatest historical sins of America, and if he'd had issues with (for example) Loving v. Virginia--which was obviously pathbreaking for interracial families--I've never heard of it; on the other hand, he certainly held some highly condescending and distrustful attitudes towards black people, so it's hard to know. I guess it comes down to, was he simply so racist as to find all thought of interracial children wholly disgusting? Or was this the 'middle path' Richard Nixon--who actually quite skillfully (in a political, not moral, sense) played the race policy agendas of the liberal Northern Dems and the George C. Wallace types off against each other while not being of either--displaying his 'pragmatic' understanding of, and comfort with, his own voter base's racist/sexist sensibilities without actually expecting that everyone should think this way?




Aaaaanyway, on a brief off-topic note, from the OP-linked article:
Quote:
Mr Nixon agreed with [Rev. Billy Graham] that Jewish-American leaders who opposed efforts to spread Christianity were in danger of triggering an anti-Semitic backlash: "What I really think is deep down in this country, there is a lot of anti-Semitism, and all this is going to do is stir it up. It may be they have a death wish. You know that's been the problem with our Jewish friends for centuries."
While I'm glad to live in a time when it would be truly jolting to think your President freely says such things in private (though Nixon was President when I was born), reading this in 2009, it just sounds so fantastically warped that I couldn't help but giggle.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 02:39 AM   #18
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
However, logically it seems to me that no abortion on demand advocate can condemn Nixon's views on this without being accused of a double standard.
Double standard with regards to what, exactly? For someone to hold racist beliefs or attitudes, however 'condemnable,' is perfectly legal, so long as they're not limiting the constitutionally due rights and freedoms of others on those grounds. And if you're pro-choice, you presumably wouldn't see having an abortion as doing that to begin with.

Sex selection might be a better example in that it can have untenable demographic consequences in the longterm, as several Asian countries have discovered--hence laws banning the use of ultrasounds to determine sex, as well as a slew of development policies intended to improve women's socioeconomic standing and therefore perceived value to parents. These measures aren't about the legality of being 'sexist towards fetuses' as such, though; they're about the state's interest in avoiding the potential social upheavals caused by an excess of men who can't find partners.

Or am I not understanding your question?
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 09:18 AM   #19
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 03:55 PM
Yes, choosing the sex is a great example. In the future, there will be hundreds of options to choose from for your baby, and unfortunately, all of them could be grounds for someone to terminate their pregnancy, whether justified, or yes, even racist reasons.

Same with marriage. It's going to get tricky when people cohabitate for other reasons than traditional love, or sex, or raising of children. You might choose to partner with someone for completely other reasons, and it seems that will have to leave that up to the indivuals as well -- and trust that when they check the box "domestic partner" on the official government form, that their reasons for partnership are legit.

Or do we draw the line somewhere, legislatively? (is that a word?)
__________________
MadelynIris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 09:52 AM   #20
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 04:55 PM
ah Nixon, what a class act
__________________
bigjohn2441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 09:54 AM   #21
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadelynIris View Post
Same with marriage. It's going to get tricky when people cohabitate for other reasons than traditional love, or sex, or raising of children. You might choose to partner with someone for completely other reasons, and it seems that will have to leave that up to the indivuals as well -- and trust that when they check the box "domestic partner" on the official government form, that their reasons for partnership are legit.
I'm not sure the correlation between these two issues. But do you honestly think people cohabitating for other reasons than "traditional" love, sex, or children is new? I'm a little baffled here...

What makes a "legit" partnership?
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 10:51 AM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: illegitimi non carborundum
Posts: 17,410
Local Time: 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
It's tricky for you, because it exposes that extremes of liberalism trend towards fascism.
Um, no. This exposes that Richard Nixon was an epic moral failure, and that's all.

Why the hell does a comment Nixon said in private about abortion almost 40 years ago represent ALL of liberalism, and from that you stretch it into fascism?

Are you fuckin' kidding me?
__________________
DaveC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 10:58 AM   #23
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 04:55 PM
i dont care as much about his views on abortion as much as his removal of the gold standard, in which our dollar was actually backed up by....... oh wait, isnt american idol on tonight?
__________________
bigjohn2441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 11:10 AM   #24
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,730
Local Time: 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
I understand what you're saying, but actually I was more deriving that from speculating about the broader social context informing the discussion, not assumptions about his unspoken thought process.
Thanks for the clarification, that was interesting.

Being just a fetus and then a newborn at various points in 1973, I didn't have any personal frame of reference for the era.
__________________
corianderstem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 11:12 AM   #25
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 03:55 PM
Quote:
What makes a "legit" partnership?
Exactly. I'm not sure if I know.

No, there is no direct correlation between the two. Other than they are considered moral issues, and are debated by society today. Our laws try to put them in black and white, (draw a line somewhere), and the debate is over where the line is drawn.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 11:19 AM   #26
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:55 PM
Gotcha...
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 12:33 PM   #27
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,366
Local Time: 04:55 PM
Seems to me the hypocrisy lies with Nixon and those who think like him...that abortion is wrong, unless the baby's mixed; then, well, it's necessary.

I'd like to think Richard Nixon was our last racist President, but I'm just not quite that naive.
__________________
CTU2fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 02:18 PM   #28
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post

Any woman should have that option, and the reasons are none of our business.
This

and this thread is grasping a straws
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 02:22 PM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 04:55 PM
Wow. Tricky Dick was an even bigger douche than we knew. Color me shocked. /sarcasm.
__________________
U2isthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 04:03 PM   #30
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
I'd like to think Richard Nixon was our last racist President, but I'm just not quite that naive.
Well Kanye told us how Bush felt about black people.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sane Abortion Article To Start Insane Thread A_Wanderer Free Your Mind Archive 68 11-09-2007 01:12 PM
HRC: common ground on abortion; also, politically brilliant Irvine511 Free Your Mind Archive 38 01-31-2005 05:57 AM
Post what's in your COPY 'N' PASTE... Catman Lemonade Stand Archive 136 03-08-2004 05:47 AM
Democratic Globalism Dreadsox Free Your Mind Archive 1 02-14-2004 07:54 AM
Go Home Human Shields, You U.S. Wankers... Iraqi Citizens topple main Saddam Statue Headache in a Suitcase Free Your Mind Archive 130 04-15-2003 08:48 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com