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Old 04-18-2010, 09:46 AM   #76
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inferiority complex?

thanatophobia is very common, diamond.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:15 PM   #77
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Yes, I would like to see my dead friends and relatives again. I also would like there to be world peace, a million dollars in my checking account, and for Matt Damon to ask me to marry him. If I took my longing as proof they were going to happen, you'd think I was deranged.
...too true.

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Miller also only scratches the great conceptual hole at the heart of heaven: After a while, wouldn't it be excruciatingly dull? When you live in the desert, a spring seems like paradise. But when you have had the spring for a thousand years, won't you be sick of it? Heaven is, in George Orwell's words, an attempt to "produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary." Take away the contrast, and heaven becomes hell.
Excellent point. Thanks for that fascinating article, Irvine.

In regards to NDEs...I've heard stories of that sort of thing before-I saw one on TV once where a man actually had a near-death experience where he claimed to have gone to hell, and when he came back, it scared him into being a nicer person. But I think we also have to take into account that usually these are being seen when people are doped up on medicine or have all these tubes or whatever else shoved into their bodies to help try and save them-they may well see things, all right, but, as Irvine's article sorta alluded to, there's probably a reason why they're "seeing things":

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Indeed, as Miller concedes: "Virtually all the features of [a near-death experience]—the sense of moving through a tunnel, an 'out of body' feeling, spiritual awe, visual hallucinations, and intense memories—can be reproduced with a stiff dose of ketamine, a horse tranquilizer frequently used as a party drug."
That being said, if someone wants to believe they had one of those experiences, who am I to deny them? I don't know them, I don't know what they truly did and didn't see. I have no problem believing some people may well have had an experience of that kind-weirder things have happened, after all, and I'm definitely with MrsSpringsteen, I like the mystery of the universe, too. I'm always fascinated by the supernatural, and won't automatically rule out anything in relation to that, 'cause who knows what this crazy world can do?

But their personal experience isn't enough to fully convince me of there definitely being an afterlife or a heaven or a hell or whatever else, that's all. It is indeed scary to think about not being around anymore in any form after this life is over-I find that terrifying, too. And I have my views on what I think happens after we die. But I'm not going to present them as sufficient proof that my way is true, 'cause, really, I don't know. I'd like to think it's true, and hope it's true, but I can't exactly prove it. And that's the only thing people really take issue with. You can believe in any religious thing you want, but people need to quit thinking that just because they believe it means they can prove it to be true.

Also, to diamond and AliEnvy in regards to your stories-scary stuff, so glad you both made it through okay.

Angela
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:54 PM   #78
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An interesting NDE from one of a less accepted persuasion:

iands.org - Eighty Seconds

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #79
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I don't know how persuasive anonymous stories (without any corroborating evidence) posted on a pro-NDE site are going to be.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:11 PM   #80
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Diemen,

Did you read the account?

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Old 04-21-2010, 11:04 PM   #81
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Diemen,

Did you read the account?

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i think you're just more gullible than the rest of us.
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:48 AM   #82
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Diemen,

Did you read the account?

<>
I did. Again, I don't think anonymous stories posted with no corroborating evidence on a site with a clear bias are all that persuasive.
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:21 AM   #83
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It's been posted on the internet. What more evidence do you need?
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:36 PM   #84
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It's been posted on the internet. What more evidence do you need?
a man drawing on a chalkboard.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:03 PM   #85
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I did. Again, I don't think anonymous stories posted with no corroborating evidence on a site with a clear bias are all that persuasive.
Hmm..

It appears there are a whole host of global collaborators and conspirators who want to:
"Build a Global Understanding of Near-Death Experiences".


I suppose they have too much time on their hands and want to share their inspirational stories to be mocked later by their fellow man-that's the ticket.

iands.org - Newest Accounts


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Eighty Seconds
Knowing Purity
Chose Second Chance
Superimposed
Things To Do
After an Accident
The Essence of Life
Let Me Stay
Still Me
Genuine Love & Compassion
Deep Peace
Lift Up Your Head
Under the Surface, Deep Within My Soul
Recall
Tremendous Homesickness
Above the Car
Back Unwillingly
An Onlooker Evaluating the Situation
Change in Thought
Lucid and Rapid Thinking
Childing
Communication without Words
Going Inside a Glove
Billions of Conscious Minds
Precognition Since NDE
Guided by a Wolf
Unforgettable 65 Years Later
Our True Home
Calling by Name
There's Life After Death
Miss Where I Was
Floating Like A Helium Balloon
I Couldn't Cross
Non-existence
Hurried to the Light
Met by Mother
Life's History Exploded into Consciousness
Near-Death Delivery Recall
Floating Over the Water
Above the Bleachers
Skipping Up a Beautiful Path
All is Everything, Everything is One
Walking Toward the Source
360 Degree Vision
Massive Infinite Entity
A Call of Life
High Above
A World of Peace in Pool
Filled with Love and Peace
There is More
Floating Above My Right Shoulder
Spinning in the Tunnel
Oneness is Reality
Chose to Stay with Children
Someone Stopped Me
About to Enter the Light
Face-to-face with Jesus the Christ
From the Sun Down to Earth
Childhood Imaginary Friend/NDE Guide
Spirit Communication
Guided to Do Out of Love
Lost Connection with the Physical Plane
You Cannot Go
Will Never Forget the Experience
Almost Went to Heaven
Holy Presence
Male Voices
Never Wanted to Leave
Living Water
Perfect Love
Saw Nurse Run Into Room
In Spirit Floating
Saw What Happened
Death Not Terrible
Left and Returned
Walking to Heaven
Radiating Warmth
Hand Reaching Down
Beautiful Field
Charcoal Corridor
I Want to Go Back
You Were Dead
Back Home
A Mission To Do
Glow of Energy
If this is Death, It's Wonderful
A Cube with Rainbow Prisms
Difficulty Being Back in My Body
Watching Myself Struggle
Another Chance to Live
Spirit Flung Out of Body
Sense of Peace
Learning with Being
Natural Continuum
Between Worlds
Corridors of Life's Images
Telepathic Communication
Quiet and Clarity
I Could See My Body
Time to Return
Love Each Other and Learn
Light and Tunnel Beneath the Water
A Place with Emanating Love
Peaceful and Not Frightening
Surrounded by Pure Love
I'm Home
Outside a Gate with Other Beings
Lucid Thought in Dark Void
A Wondrous River of Peace
Everything Self-Evident
Shed Body Like Caterpillar for More Beautiful Form
Bright Oversized Sun
Surrounded by God's Love
Sensed Someone Beside Me
Lost Breath of Life
Shown How Illnesses Start on an Energetic Level
Following Spiritual Guide toward White Tunnel
Not Ready to Go
Powerful Bright White Force
Surrounded by Intense Energy
Ultimate Peacefulness
Review to Send On or Back
Standing in the Greenest Grass
Floating through the Air
Caring Voices
The Brightest of Lights
A Healing Robe of Stones
Streaming Bright Light
Loving Light Took Grief and Said Grow
Shimmering River of Life
Life Span
Loving Light
Held Back
Gargantuan Energy Source
Revelation
Sweet Contentment
Out of Body Ecstasy
Blue Light
Image
Beauty and No Fear at Drowning Point
More than Euphoria amid the Presence
At Birth
Sister's Prayer
Watching Over Me
Three Accounts
Unborn
Spirit Direction
An Angelic Visit
Better Lives for Children
Happy Freedom
Living Grace
A Boundary of Flowers
Black Room
Waved Back by an Angel
Misty White Light
Brighter Path
A Choice to Continue or Return



It's OK I suppose, King Agrippa doubted the Apostle Paul, and the Apostle Thomas doubted his fellow Apostles.
God won't take our free will away, so He won't force us to come to Him in this life.

To want to know God here, one has to do it voluntarily, this is how we develop Faith-one of the reasons we're all here on earth.
That said, we'll all know eventually: some sooner than later.

The intellectually spiritual will grasp the concept of God quicker then others-from what I read and experienced.

Thankfully for all of us God is patient.


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Old 04-23-2010, 10:57 PM   #86
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It appears there are a whole host of global collaborators and conspirators who want to:
"Build a Global Understanding of Near-Death Experiences".
Shall I link you to a host of alien abduction collaborators? After all, if there are that many of them, they must be true
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:08 PM   #87
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How about erowid.org; people post about their mystical experiences on drugs, but it doesn't prove anything supernatural.
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:15 PM   #88
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Also, to diamond and AliEnvy in regards to your stories-scary stuff, so glad you both made it through okay.
ty

I am interested in the findings of research I posted about a while back on NDE and attempting to determine whether there are credible cases where it could be established that conscious thought occured after physical death. The paper is due out some time this year.
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:52 PM   #89
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How about erowid.org; people post about their mystical experiences on drugs, but it doesn't prove anything supernatural.
Yes, they do.

And, they come back and say this and that, (usually hallucinations) but they do not come back (unless they died) and say they accurately saw:

Their doctor looking over 4 charts, 3 doors down in a room on the right that had 2 yellow lamps, a red carpet with a picture of Tahiti on the right hand side of the room. They also go on to say in this room was an antique clock that was on west the wall etc, for example, all accurate facts because -they were clinically dead and their spirit body actually left their natural body, their spiritual body observed these things while out of their natural body -and then they were later revived. That's why and how they know these things.

or

come back say they met this or that relative who had past, who they never knew existed in this life, but later find out they actually did exist and then are able to pick that dead relative's picture out of a photo line up accurately.

So, choose to deny the spiritual and supernal all you want, I choose not to.

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Old 04-24-2010, 12:25 AM   #90
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But having your mind so open that you risk having your brain fall out isn't a good way to approach the world

The phenomena of sleep paralysis could help explain how somebody would know the conditions of the room. It's also possible that a bias crept in during the operation, perhaps they were awake when they got into the operating theatre, or when they left. There is the possibility that they misremembered the sequence of events, and they confabulated the operation after seeing the room following the surgery. Then there is the possibility that they made observations about the charts after the surgery.

The biggest issue is that the testimony is from an interested party, these people have an agenda of promoting afterlife stories. You posted a story in the last NDE thread that was thoroughly investigated and debunked, but you seem incapable of accepting the plausible answer.

I've pointed out the TED talk of the neuroanatomist who had a stroke, and had NDE symptoms while being aware of what was going on. She didn't need to latch her experiences onto anything supernatural in the way that your NDE community seems to do.
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