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Old 04-18-2010, 02:11 AM   #16
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as a christian and a liberal, it seems my faith is often at odds with my religious beliefs. but i've got to agree with the ruling. there's nothing wrong with christian groups and denominations saying today is a national day of prayer, but to involve the government in declaring such a day is unconstitutional.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:07 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
It would only be unconstitutional if the President was ordering everyone to pray, and to pray to a specific God or obey a specific faith.
This.

Don't want to pray? Don't.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:47 AM   #18
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What about a National Day of Service?

Prayer without action is kind of like faith without fruits...
Yes-and we already have two. MLK day already was, and President Obama designated 9/11 as a national day of service and remembrance by signing the Kennedy Serve America act (it was a bipartisan bill). Of course there were actually people who said that Obama was "desecrating" 9/11 by doing that-Rush Limbaugh was one. And he did actually call it socialist.

Obama did not have the ecumenical prayer service at the WH on the National Day Of Prayer last year that Bush held every year.

We have many national days of ____. Who actually participates or feels any pressure to participate? So anyone can have his/her own freedom from religion on that day, and I would agree that it's an overreach to file lawsuits over it and to act as if you're being forced into anything and/or offended. But I don't think it's any "war" on Christmas or Christians or religion. I still pray when and where I want to.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:54 PM   #19
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I don't feel slapped in the face


By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — If President Obama fails to intervene to allow controversial evangelist Franklin Graham to lead a National Day of Prayer event Thursday inside the Pentagon, "it will be a slap in the face of all Christians," Graham said Tuesday.

And invited or not, he'll stand in front of the Pentagon and pray, Graham said in an interview.

The Pentagon had invited a private national evangelical group, the National Day of Prayer Task Force, of which Graham is 2010 honorary chairman, to lead an official prayer service there. The prayers are for the U.S. military; Graham's son is on his fourth tour in Afghanistan.

But the invitation was rescinded after mainline Protestants, Muslims and Jews complained that Graham offends and excludes many believers because of his strict views on Christianity and his comments that Islam is "evil."

The Task Force requires organizers and prayer leaders to sign a statement of beliefs agreeing that salvation is only through Christ and that the Bible is inerrant — views not shared by all Christians, including Catholics and many mainline Protestants.

In an interview Tuesday with USA TODAY, Graham reiterated his belief that "Muslims do not worship the same 'God the Father' I worship." He laughed at Hinduism's many manifestations of God: "No elephant with 100 arms can do anything for me. None of their 9,000 gods is going to lead me to salvation.

"We are fooling ourselves if we think we can have some big kumbaya service and all hold hands and it's all going to get better in this world. It's not going to get better," Graham said.

He also said Obama pays attention only to black charismatic and Pentecostal pastors, such as his spiritual adviser, Joshua Dubois. Dubois heads the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, which has dozens of advisers from a wide spectrum of denominations.

Obama invited scores of pastors to an Easter breakfast, attended the National Prayer Breakfast, and signed the annual proclamation for the National Day of Prayer. The administration is appealing a federal court ruling that the National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional.

"The president is a committed Christian who is proud of his engagement with people of faith," White House spokesman Shin Inouye said Tuesday.

Still, Graham said, he "warned" Dubois that Obama is losing millions of "mainstream evangelicals" because he appears to be "soft on Islam" and he doesn't stand up for the "rights of the historic Christian majority." (Dubois declined to respond about a private conversation.)

Graham told USA TODAY that when Obama visited his father, 91-year-old evangelist Billy Graham, last month, the younger Graham asked the president to intercede with the Pentagon to restore his invitation. He said Obama replied that he would "look into it."

On Tuesday, Task Force spokesman Michael Calhoun said there had been no word from the White House on the matter.

The Task Force holds its main services Thursday morning at a House of Representatives office building. Graham says after he prays at the Pentagon, he'll join the group on Capitol Hill. Everyone, of any faith, is welcome to join their Christian prayers.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:05 PM   #20
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I don't feel slapped in the face
That's because you aren't a "real" christian.


Franklin Graham is such a nasty, whiny little bastard. I will never understand why anyone would want to be associated with him in any way whatsoever. Ugh.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:06 PM   #21
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Matthew 6:5

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:28 PM   #22
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MC Hammer 19:91

We got to pray just to make it today.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
It would only be unconstitutional if the President was ordering everyone to pray, and to pray to a specific God or obey a specific faith.
I couldn't help but think of Islam when I read this.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:18 PM   #24
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I couldn't help but think of Islam when I read this.
or buy health insurance ?
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:30 PM   #25
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I'm mindful of the person who said, on the subject of ruling out prayer in schools, "As long as there are final exams there will be prayer in schools..."

As long as there are corrupt politicians, selfish bureaucrats, and highway traffic, there will be national days of prayer.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:11 PM   #26
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MC Hammer 19:91

We got to pray just to make it today.
2legit2quit.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:55 PM   #27
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As long as there are corrupt politicians, selfish bureaucrats, , there will be national days of prayer.
You are right, the Pharisees loved to make spectacles of themselves in public prayer.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:20 PM   #28
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By the President of the United States of America.

A Proclamation.

The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consiousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington, this Third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the Independence of the Unites States the Eighty-eighth.

By the President: Abraham Lincoln

William H. Seward,
Secretary of State
Not that Abe Lincoln was asking the nation to pray on this Day of Thanksgiving or anything. That would be unconstitutional.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:28 PM   #29
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INDY, why would you want Pharisees? Why would you want those that have to pray to be seen?

I would think you'd want something sincere, a little more Christ-like
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:28 PM   #30
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Not that Abe Lincoln was asking the nation to pray on this Day of Thanksgiving or anything. That would be unconstitutional.
Deo Vindice
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