My How We Progressed- 7 Yr Anniversary - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-04-2009, 08:38 AM   #16
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 03:07 AM
But the clearest endorsement of terror as a legitimate instrument of political bargaining came from former President Jimmy Carter. In his book "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," Mr. Carter appeals to the sponsors of suicide bombing. "It is imperative that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Road-map for Peace are accepted by Israel." Acts of terror, according to Mr. Carter, are no longer taboo, but effective tools for terrorists to address perceived injustices.

Ok, let me see if I understand Jimmy Carter's logic by giving another example:

All rapes will stop when women stop walking around and just stay home because it's THEIR fault if they get raped, right?

In other words - he's blaming US for the terrorist acts committed against our people?

Mr. Carter's logic has become the dominant paradigm in rationalizing terror. When asked what Israel should do to stop Hamas's rockets aimed at innocent civilians, the Syrian first lady, Asma Al-Assad, did not hesitate for a moment in her response: "They should end the occupation." In other words, terror must earn a dividend before it is stopped.

I see, so that also means that in order for us to live in peace we need to commit suicide.....okay I understand now.

I find it very surprising that Jimmy Carter finds terrorist acts "an effective tool for terrorists to address perceived injustices" - apparantly he forgot the American hostages who were held in Iran for 444 days - why did he try to negotiate their release and even mount a failed rescue attempt? If they were justified in what they did then he just should have left them there.....

And we all know in what great esteem the Iranians held Mr. Carter, seeing as they released the hostages the day AFTER he left the White House.

I'm appalled that the statesman who brokered the very first peace agreement between Israel and an Arab country (Egypt), and who a Nobel peace laureate, should now find terrorism a legitimate means to an end.
__________________

__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 09:03 AM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,459
Local Time: 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
[B]

I'm appalled that the statesman who brokered the very first peace agreement between Israel and an Arab country (Egypt), and who a Nobel peace laureate, should now find terrorism a legitimate means to an end.
democratically elected politicans do this all the time, you should know that.

i don't think the men, women and children who've died from officially sanctioned bombs that were given the green light by the international community feel any better, than those who've died from an unsuspecting asshole who blows himself up.
__________________

__________________
Zoomerang96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 10:21 AM   #18
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomerang96 View Post
democratically elected politicans do this all the time, you should know that.

i don't think the men, women and children who've died from officially sanctioned bombs that were given the green light by the international community feel any better, than those who've died from an unsuspecting asshole who blows himself up.
You're right Zoom - that is one of the tragedies of terrorism; that innocent people are always caught in the middle of fighting and are killed for no good reason except hatred.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 12:43 PM   #19
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
I find it very surprising that Jimmy Carter finds terrorist acts "an effective tool for terrorists to address perceived injustices"

---

I'm appalled that the statesman who brokered the very first peace agreement between Israel and an Arab country (Egypt), and who a Nobel peace laureate, should now find terrorism a legitimate means to an end.
The establishment of an independent Israel in 1948 was preceeded by terrorist acts committed by Jews against the British. You like to point out history when it suits your point, will you ignore it when it doesn't?

What I truly find incredible is the contrast that the world's most powerful, nuclear armies are rendered defenseless by box cutters and home made rockets.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 09:56 PM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
The establishment of an independent Israel in 1948 was preceeded by terrorist acts committed by Jews against the British. .

Can you elaborate on that-heard it mentioned but don't know details.



<>
__________________
diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 11:05 PM   #21
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 03:07 AM
I'm pretty sure you do know what I'm talking about. But here you go. This first section under the wiki link is succinct and covers the relevance of my comment with info that can be cross-referenced all over the place if you'd feel more comfortable with a more legit source you can find on your own.

Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Irgun..., "National Military Organization in the Land of Israel") was a militant Zionist group that operated in Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was established as a militant offshoot of the earlier and larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah .... For reasons of secrecy, people often referred to the Irgun, during that time, as Haganah Bet.. or alternatively as Haganah Ha'leumit... or Ha'ma'amad .... In present-day Israel, Irgun is commonly referred to as Etzel..., an acronym of the Hebrew initials.

The Irgun was the armed expression of the nascent ideology of Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky. He expressed this ideology as "every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs and the British; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[1] Over time the focus of their actions shifted from the Palestinian Arabs to the British.[citation needed]

Some of the better-known attacks by Irgun were the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre (accomplished together with the Stern Gang) on 9 April 1948. In the West, Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by The New York Times newspaper,[2][3], The Times (of London) [4][5], the British Broadcasting Corporation [6], the Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry[7], and prominent world and Jewish figures, such as Winston Churchill[8], Tom Segev[9], Hannah Arendt, Albert Einstein, and many others.[10] Irgun attacks prompted a formal declaration from the World Zionist Congress in 1946, which strongly condemned "the shedding of innocent blood as a means of political warfare".[11]

Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party. Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2009, 10:30 PM   #22
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:07 AM
Quote:
(accomplished together with the Stern Gang)
...aka Lehi, which emerged as a still more radical offshoot of Irgun and in fact openly referred to themselves as terrorists. In the summer of 1943, in the banned Lehi journal HeKhazit, future Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir--under his Lehi pseudonym 'Michael,' after the Irish revolutionary he idolized--published a manifesto of sorts entitled "Terror" (טירור ; the Hebrew word is just the English word transliterated):
Quote:
But first and foremost, terror is for us a part of our political battle under the present circumstances, and it has a great role to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world, as well as to our wretched brethren outside this land, it proclaims our war against the true terrorist, who hides behind his piles of papers and the laws he has legislated.
But FWIW, I think what I was saying earlier about the tendency of the essentializing label "terrorist" to implicitly render grievances illegitimate and undeserving of ethical redress could be applied just as well to the 'tendencies' of the British vis-à-vis the Irgun and Lehi (and of the British vis-à-vis early Palestinian paramilitaries/terrorists like al-Kaff-al-Aswad‎ and al-Fidaiyya, though that's a separate story). It's no coincidence that Zionist anti-British terrorism took off after the issuance of the 1939 White Paper (Shamir wrote the above in the awareness that his entire family back 'home' had been murdered by the Nazis), and many of the Irgun and Lehi attacks on British personnel had the character of tit-for-tat vengeance-- 'So you're going to arrest our people and torture and flog them to extract information, allright then, we're going to do the same to yours.'
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com