monogamy

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why on earth would people keep having children then? The answer, which the NPR reporter, a new mother herself, concluded with is that there is something beyond happiness that many people gain from parenthood.

Again, the quest for unconditional love and fulfillment.

How did NPR define happiness for the comparison?
 
reminds me of the opening 5-10 minutes of "Up."

carl_and_ellie.jpg


imho, the opening is as perfect a piece of filmmaking as has ever been made.

Moved me to tears. Brilliant. They could have stopped there and I would have been satisfied.
 
Again, the quest for unconditional love and fulfillment.

How did NPR define happiness for the comparison?

I don't recall that they did. I need to find the link, if there is one. It was such a profound piece. I'm planning a blog entry on the topic.
 
The brilliance of the opening sequence of Up is that it moves men in a way that mushiness in movies usually only moves us chicks. :heart:

I have to admit, I understand the appeal of this. I really do. It just seems impossible to actually live out without reprocussions. And my view of morality is just that--you avoid doing the things that lead to reprocussions to others and yourself. If there are truly no reprocussions then there is no moral violation--otherwise morality is just abritrary nonsense.

:yes:

Yet some are able to pull it off smoothly just as others are able to pull off cradle to grave.

another question: is dishonesty important in relationships? i'm not talking about lying about having another wife or lying about having been in jail. i'm talking about the little white lies we tell day in and day out in order to facilitate living together. perhaps i don't really like your lemon bars, or maybe that shirt does make you look fat, but i lie to you for your own happiness. do we lie because we love?

Pardon me for bringing kids back into the discussion for a moment. When my girls were about 20 months and 6 months old respectively, the older one blamed the younger one for something she knew she wasn't allowed to do (and something that was actually impossible for the younger one to pull off).

A lie, not even 2 years old yet! How? Why?

Kids lie in order not to disappoint their parents. So maybe we do lie because we love, or rather are afraid to lose love, or don't want to hurt those we love.
 
:yes:

Yet some are able to pull it off smoothly just as others are able to pull off cradle to grave.

I'm not sure I follow you. Could you elaborate on this?



Pardon me for bringing kids back into the discussion for a moment. When my girls were about 20 months and 6 months old respectively, the older one blamed the younger one for something she knew she wasn't allowed to do (and something that was actually impossible for the younger one to pull off).

A lie, not even 2 years old yet! How? Why?

Kids lie in order not to disappoint their parents. So maybe we do lie because we love, or rather are afraid to lose love, or don't want to hurt those we love.

I remember the shock of realizing the first time my son lied. He's not quite two. I believe his lie was motivated by the desire to not have his diaper changed--something he's finding more and more difficult to endure with each passing day:

"Do you have poopie?"

"No."
 
I'm not sure I follow you. Could you elaborate on this?

I meant that some couples are able to be open without repercussions over the long-term (as Irvine pointed out) and others are perfectly happy with only ever having one sexual partner for life.

People certainly have their preferences. But is one better than the other, whether it's more natural or not?

One size does not fit all.

Yet I do believe we are all after the same thing ultimately although it may not have as much to do with sex as we're led to assume and take for granted.
 
It's not possible for human beings to be monogamous. We are animals. No matter how beautiful or loving or kind our partner is, there is always somebody else who piques our interest. That's why you see guys married with beautiful women, always cheating. The same goes for women. It is very, very difficult for any human being not to stray. It's our nature to cheat. Almost everybody cheats. The trick is to not get caught.

Personally speaking, I will never be in this predicament because women don't find me remotely attractive. Not one single female. It's a fact.
 
It's not possible for human beings to be monogamous.

Um, I think there are plenty of people who would beg to differ, and who indeed would prove you wrong. :)

No matter how beautiful or loving or kind our partner is, there is always somebody else who piques our interest.

There is a difference between noticing other women and taking action to be with other women. It is natural to notice and even be attracted to other women if you're in a monogamous relationship. It is also quite possible to be attracted to other women and choose not to act on that attraction.

That's why you see guys married with beautiful women, always cheating. The same goes for women. It is very, very difficult for any human being not to stray. It's our nature to cheat. Almost everybody cheats. The trick is to not get caught.

This is where I think you're flat out wrong. I don't find it particularly difficult to stay faithful to my fiancée. I imagine I'm not alone in not finding it all that difficult to stay faithful to my partner. Are there plenty of people who cheat? Sure. But I don't think that qualifies as "almost everybody."

Personally speaking, I will never be in this predicament because women don't find me remotely attractive. Not one single female. It's a fact.

And they never will until you get rid of this attitude. :shrug:
 
Personally speaking, I will never be in this predicament because women don't find me remotely attractive. Not one single female. It's a fact.

With that kind of an attitude, I can see why.
 
Everybody cheats, Alienvy. It is in our animal nature which we are, naturally, powerless to transcend even for a fleeting instant.
 
I don't find it particularly difficult to stay faithful to my fiancée. I imagine I'm not alone in not finding it all that difficult to stay faithful to my partner.

Yet there are people who find it difficult. The majority it seems from the OP - skyrocketing divorce rates, single parenthood and sexless, passionless marriages - is there something wrong with them?

The ones who achieve long-term happiness (or fulfillment), what are they doing differently?

platitudes about communication will not suffice here
 
The ones who achieve long-term happiness (or fulfillment), what are they doing differently?

platitudes about communication will not suffice here

Someone said that no size fits all, and every relationship is different.

However, both my parents and my in-laws celebrated 35 and 30 years, respectively. They say a few things have helped them over the years:

1. Communication. (It's sad when a cliche is true, isn't it?)
2. Regular sex. (2-3 times/week)
3. Cooperative decision making. (ie., no one person rules the roost)
4. Regular time together. (Date night once a week)
5. Physical/emotional/mental fidelity. (like Diemen said, it's not difficult if you want to be)
6. The willingness to sacrifice for the sake of the other person -- on both sides.
7. Keeping work in its appropriate place. (don't be consumed by a job or career)
8. Remembering that the kids are guests in your home -- guests who will someday leave.
9. Having a network of support -- church, close friends, etc. -- people who can tell you when you're wrong.

I think the reality is that the biggest thing to making a relationship/marriage work is choosing the right person. As has been said before, sexual compatability is not the same thing as relational compatability, but an awful lot of decisions are made based on chemistry, not compatability. Or they get married, and one person -- or both -- get focused on other things ("hey, I married you, didn't I?"), and are then surprised when they wake up 2, 3, 5, 10 years into a marriage and say, "I don't know this person anymore." The wedding day is just the start of everything.

It leaves you, baby, if you don't care for it.
 
Yet there are people who find it difficult. The majority it seems from the OP - skyrocketing divorce rates, single parenthood and sexless, passionless marriages - is there something wrong with them?

The ones who achieve long-term happiness (or fulfillment), what are they doing differently?

platitudes about communication will not suffice here

I would imagine everyone will find it difficult at some point in their marriage. It may not always be difficult and it may not even be difficult most of the time, but for everyone there are times what it is difficult. The ones who achieve long-term happiness are the ones (assuming they are both emotionally and mentally healthy) that stick it out when the difficult times come. And not merely "endure" but find ways to grow as individuals and as a couple through it.

Shoot. Can't think of a good U2 lyric to drive home my point.
 
It's not possible for human beings to be monogamous. We are animals. No matter how beautiful or loving or kind our partner is, there is always somebody else who piques our interest. That's why you see guys married with beautiful women, always cheating. The same goes for women. It is very, very difficult for any human being not to stray. It's our nature to cheat. Almost everybody cheats. The trick is to not get caught.

Personally speaking, I will never be in this predicament because women don't find me remotely attractive. Not one single female. It's a fact.

This post never would have been made by someone in a monogamous relationship.

Score one for the "home" team.
 
My thought process:

Since happiness (as well as its importance within the context of a fulfilling human relationship) is entirely subjective, I would rather not think about it. Life may be too short to deny ones own primal urges, but I figure spending time apart from your best friend, your partner, is equally wasteful. If you can find a partner who is special enough to deviate from monogamy to the precise degree that you find acceptable, you have my blessing. But even within those parameters, I too am skeptical of such an existence being repercussion-free.

Besides, I'll never be an orgy guy. I'd have to purchase robes and lotions, get new friends, and grow a mustache.
 
i guess the thrust of all this -- snerk -- is whether or not these repercussions are as "natural" as our supposed non-monogamous nature, or whether or not they are totally socialized. i'm just trying to figure out why it is we do what we do, and the point of that being to try and live as authentically as possible.

If you're referring to the repercussions that arise from jealousy, A-W mentioned jealously being hard-wired. Hadn't heard that before. And the research of the OP article wouldn't support it if we used to be like free-lovin' bonobos.

For anyone who paid attention to the readings at a Catholic wedding..."love is not jealous...".

So why are we jealous?
 
Happiness is fleeting in general, really. Unhappiness, though, while also transient, tends to last longer. I don't know that I'd want to embrace one fleeting moment of happiness and then live with years of unhappy consequences afterwards.

Happiness is a warm gun.
 
This thread has high TMI potential but yeah, didn't see that one coming. :lol:

Well done.

I have now added polyamory, pansexual and GFE/BFE to my vocabulary.
 
what's weird is that i'm watching "Fatal Attraction" right now.

sure, it's a very 1980s Glenn-Close-is-AIDS metaphor, but it's also about how women simply can't be trusted to keep a goddamn secret and not freak out about every little thing. :tsk:
 
There is always:

Girlfriend experience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Capitalism is great, there's a supplier for every demand.

Anybody see the Steven Soderberg film "The Girlfriend Experience"? It's about just high-end call girl who provides exactly this type of service. Ironically, there's virtually no sex in the movie, which is all the more ironic because the main character is played by one of the biggest porn stars in the industry, Sasha Grey. It was actually quite interesting and really made me think. And Sasha rather unemotional performance somehow worked. I recommend it.
 
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