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Old 08-03-2010, 08:51 PM   #106
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Berlusconi update:

Berlusconi in new sex scandal amid 'four-in-a-bed' claims | Mail Online


And a story about gorillas:

Irish gorilla Kesho drafted in as 'surrogate' husband and father at London Zoo - Telegraph
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:20 PM   #107
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Because that makes it sounds like the woman's at fault if the man strays - well, ladies, you didn't do your job to keep your man satisfied!

Which is a sentiment that is sadly still prevelent.
Hmm. I don't think that it's saying that the woman is completely at fault and that the man has no responsibility. It's certainly not the case that if a woman has less than x amount of sex with her husband that it makes it okay for him to cheat. But, I think there is a certain amount of responsibility if a woman is ignoring legitimate needs of her husband. Just like if the husband was not fulfilling his wife's emotional needs....it wouldn't make it okay for her to cultivate a deep emotional bond with her co-worker, but it would make it a lot easier for her to do so. In a marriage both people have needs, and if someone is ignoring the needs of the other person, it would be bizarre to me to say that they are not at least partially at fault. It doesn't make it okay for the other person to cheat, but there are contributing factors that have to be considered.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:38 PM   #108
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i think partners who are neglected tend to stray and find their needs fulfilled elsewhere if they and their partners are incapable of addressing those needs.

could be physical, emotional, etc.

so it's not so simple as saying if you're not having sex 2-3 times a week, ladies, then your man is going to stray. (though, incidentally, there *are* some religious-based "therapies" that essentially say that, since a man biologically needs a sexual release every 2-3 days [which may be true], then it is your wifely responsibility to keep up with that ... but don't get me started on the religious-therapy-morality complex where all sorts of sexual needs and behaviors are pathologized using just the slightest patina of "science" in order to gloss over what is a specific world view ... it's no different than intelligent design, but i digress ...)

but it is saying that if a partner is feeling a gaping need somewhere in the relationship, it should be addressed as a couple. and perhaps it's impossible for said couple to actually address the issue. then we make choices. and we live with those decisions.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:40 PM   #109
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Of course I agree with the more nuanced thinking behind such a sentiment, but whenever you hear such a sentiment expressed, I've found the person saying it really isn't thinking in such a nuanced way and is not being very helpful.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:59 PM   #110
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i think partners who are neglected tend to stray and find their needs fulfilled elsewhere if they and their partners are incapable of addressing those needs.

could be physical, emotional, etc.

so it's not so simple as saying if you're not having sex 2-3 times a week, ladies, then your man is going to stray. (though, incidentally, there *are* some religious-based "therapies" that essentially say that, since a man biologically needs a sexual release every 2-3 days [which may be true], then it is your wifely responsibility to keep up with that ... but don't get me started on the religious-therapy-morality complex where all sorts of sexual needs and behaviors are pathologized using just the slightest patina of "science" in order to gloss over what is a specific world view ... it's no different than intelligent design, but i digress ...)

but it is saying that if a partner is feeling a gaping need somewhere in the relationship, it should be addressed as a couple. and perhaps it's impossible for said couple to actually address the issue. then we make choices. and we live with those decisions.

It should be addressed as a couple where possible, but where there is a mismatch it can be addressed by, well, to be blunt, the woman granting allowance for him to look at porn - once it isn't interfering with the actual relationship. In my admittedly limited experience at lot of Irish women have hang-ups about this (less so, to be fair, the twentysomething generation.) This is one of the reasons why I generally, on balance, approve of pornography.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:31 PM   #111
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I generally, on balance, approve of pornography.
*whew*
I'll fap free of guilt tonight
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:33 PM   #112
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If you're in a relationship I think you probably shouldn't, but I'm just being realistic.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:35 PM   #113
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I cant believe it's even an issue to anyone
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:41 PM   #114
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Not sure if I'd agree, I think there's a valid debate to be had around pornography. I would automatically discount viewpoints based solely on religious strictures, but still.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:34 PM   #115
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I cant believe it's even an issue to anyone
Here is the female equivalent...

CANOE - Lifewise Sex Files: The failings of make-believe

The failings of make-believe

Right now, an entire generation of teenage girls are being set up for future failure.

Thing is, they don't even know it yet. They're clueless and hopeful and happily drinking up a sweet, syrupy potion known as the hunky leading man ideal.

What they can't possibly realize is that they're heading for a long road of disappointment ahead. For them, it all starts with a young, pasty heartthrob named Robert Pattinson.

For my generation, it was John Cusack.

It wasn't that Cusack was ridiculously good looking, but he was cute enough and he played the adorably lovesick Lloyd Dobler in the coming-of-age film, Say Anything. With that single, character defining role, girls everywhere willingly drank the rom-com Kool-Aid.


We believed it was only a matter of time until the boy we liked would stand outside our window holding up a ghetto blaster playing Peter Gabriel's In Your Eyes, or some equally cheesy love ballad.

Well, guess what? We waited and dated and it never did happen.

Okay, I did get close once. Rewind to when I was first discovering boys and you'll see me getting serenaded by a shaggy-haired boy singing a sloppy rendition of Guns & Roses' Patience along to the acoustic guitar. In retrospect, I am pretty sure I wasn't the first girl he played that song for, but that's another story.

Regardless, at the time I was certain this was just the beginning of his big, sweeping, romantic gestures. Sadly, I soon discovered that this slightly off-key performance was all I was getting.

This is where we've been steered wrong. By Lloyd Dobler and, more recently, Pattinson as the vampire romantic, Edward.

Generation after generation of girls and even full-grown women fall for it - sitting down to saccharine-dripping tales of happily-ever-after, via the rom com.

Sure, they seem harmless enough, but could these gushing, boy-meets-girl flicks actually be damaging our relationships?

They just might be.

According to a survey out of Australia, loaded-up scenes filling with over-the-top romance are setting us up with unrealistic expectations of real-life relationships.

And no wonder. After all, in the world of chick flicks, even undeserving characters - Kate Hudson as Andie in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, cut-throat magazine editor Jenna (Jennifer Garner) in 13 Going on 30 and journal-obsessed neurotic Renée Zellweger in Bridget Jones’s Diary, just to give you a small sampling - somehow manage to score the guy.

In the lovely, formulaic world, scripts may get drama-filled and messy, but the on-screen matches always seem to work out brilliantly (cue the fireworks).

The survey found that almost half believe rom-coms have not just tainted, but ruined their view of an ideal relationship. Meanwhile, one in four feels they're expected to be able to read their partner's mind, and one in five say their mates expect to receive unexpected gifts and flowers for no reason.

Meanwhile, guys scramble to keep up. Yeah, good luck with that, what with Cusack (the crack daddy of all romance) to contend with.

But, here's the thing: Eventually we grow up and learn the difference between fantasy and reality. We realize that the former won't get the bills paid, the trash taken out or the dishes washed and that, in real life, it's the creases in love's imperfect plot lines that keeps things interesting. We mess up, iron out the wrinkles and sometimes, in the midst of this crazy thing called love, we discover something real, with blemishes and blips and yes, even magical, moments of pure, blissful perfection.

Still, that won't stop us from watching and weeping and gripping onto the hair-thin possibility that one day, somewhere, somehow, we might be on the receiving end of a spectacular, mind-blowing, pie-in-the-sky sentimental outpouring of amazing rom-com proportions.

Can it happen? Sure.

All you need is just a little patience, about $5 and rental card for at your local video store. Suspension of disbelief is a mighty tool, but while it's a nice place to visit for a predictable 90 minutes or so, I've yet to meet any couple who actually lives there.

Rom com quotes that are killing your love life:

Notting Hill

Anna (Julia Roberts) to William (Hugh Grant): "I'm also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her."

Don Juan DeMarco (Johnny Depp)

"There are only four questions of value in life. What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made of? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same. Only love."

When Harry Met Sally

Harry (Billy Crystal) to Sally (Meg Ryan): "I came here tonight because when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible."

The Notebook

Noah (Ryan Gosling) to Allie (Rachel McAdams): "The best love is the kind that awakens the soul and makes us reach for more, that plants a fire in our hearts and brings peace to our minds and that's what you've given me."

Love Actually

Jamie (Colin Firth) trying to speak Portuguese to Aurelia (Lúcia Moniz): "Beautiful Aurelia, I've come here with a view of asking you to marriage me. I know I seems an insane person - because I hardly knows you - but sometimes things are so transparency, they don't need evidential proof."
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:42 PM   #116
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poor girls. culture is so mean to them. no matter what they do, they are always and forever victims.

Hollywood is a dream factory. they know what the girls want. if they wouldn't buy tickets to shitty romantic comedies maybe they wouldn't be made.

for some reason, i never piloted the Milennium Falcon through hyperspace, nor did i rescue the Ark of the Covenant and keep it safe from Hitler's armies, and yet, i don't feel as if i've been lied to and cheated out of the exciting life that should have been real because i saw it in a movie.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:49 PM   #117
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^

I must be a bad woman -- I have never seen a single movie mentioned in that article. The last romantic comedy I watched was As Good As it Gets. Yup, Jack Nicholson as the cranky, obsessive compulsive, old, balding, and kinda fat leading man. (the character was apparently wealthy) That actually does sound a lot like the guys indra is bound to attract. Minus the wealth part, of course. (can't have everything )
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:59 PM   #118
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poor girls. culture is so mean to them. no matter what they do, they are always and forever victims.
Perhaps you missed my point.

If pornography can potentially be perceived to create unrealistic expectations, the gender flipside of that is over-the-top romance.

It's really just the capacity to discern fantasy from reality and balance in expectations. That way women shouldn't feel threatened by porn and men shouldn't feel they have to live up to leading man silliness.
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:06 PM   #119
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poor girls. culture is so mean to them. no matter what they do, they are always and forever victims.

Hollywood is a dream factory. they know what the girls want. if they wouldn't buy tickets to shitty romantic comedies maybe they wouldn't be made.
Hmmm.The culture has become more feminised, possibly. On the other hand, I wouldn't assume that all women are really very into that rom-com stuff, in the same way that I don't think most straight males are really turned-on by the Hollywood borderline-anorexic hard body types that we're supposed to be into. I think we are arguing over multiple issues here.

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:for some reason, i never piloted the Milennium Falcon through hyperspace, nor did i rescue the Ark of the Covenant and keep it safe from Hitler's armies, and yet, i don't feel as if i've been lied to and cheated out of the exciting life that should have been real because i saw it in a movie.
Well, Flash Gordon was clearly gay as Christmas, so there's kind of a homo-erotic subtext as regards these kinds of role models. I would argue.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:01 AM   #120
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Perhaps you missed my point.

If pornography can potentially be perceived to create unrealistic expectations, the gender flipside of that is over-the-top romance.


i disagree. i think porn is porn, and its about fucking. i think that the male equivalent to the unrealistic expectations in a rom-com would be the heroics of the aforementioned Han Solo or Indiana Jones (or James Bond, or Jason Bourne, or whatever).

men like porn and women like rom-coms? were i a woman i'd be upset at the simplification of my sexuality required of the comparison.
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