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Old 07-09-2010, 04:08 PM   #76
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I know it's hard to conceptualize, but I'm not advocating a free for all.

What if he went on a sex tour to Thailand and you amused yourself however you wanted during that time based on mutual negotiation.

What will have changed in the bond between you when you're back together?


if we agree, that's one thing.

if one says, "i'm doing this anyway," then that's something else.

i know you're not saying a free for all, but one can do wild and crazy things yet still follow the rules, and i think following the rules (to the best of one's ability) is part of a relationship between two mutually consenting adults.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:40 PM   #77
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Completely agree.

I think the OP article is intended to give a wider perspective on openness about negotiating the rules since most of us take monogamy for granted and likely make many assumptions about our partner's needs.

It also indirectly suggests that those who successfully navigate alternatives perhaps should not be viewed as "less than".
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:38 PM   #78
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So is the connection we feel with someone when we have sex with them just a social construct then? We're "supposed" to feel an emotional connection so we do?

I would argue no. I think that's why so often the "no-strings" attached sex can develop strings and why swingers still find themselves dealing with same emotional stuff, even though they are supposed to be in open relationship.

Can you really guarantee that you'll be able to keep the physical and emotional seperate, or are they likely to bleed into one another.

Just finished watching the film "Never Forever" (actually looked it up based on a mention in the Zoo Station when we were talking about "Up in the Air." Vera Familigia (sp?) was both films), and it seems to reinforce this notion that when you start a sexual relationship with someone, even with the idea that it's strictly for utilitarian purposes, you can't guarantee that you won't find yourself emotionally involved.
I think some people can and some people can't. There's the old cliche about women not being able to have no-strings attached sex without developing emotional attachments, and while there may be some truth in the stereotype, it's a huge over-generalisation as there are plenty of women that can have no-strings attached sex without becoming emotionally involved and there are plenty of men that become emotionally involved without having planned on doing on.

There's a saying in Ireland now among college age kids and kids in their twenties - "fuck buddies" - I think you can guess the meaning. And my reaction on reading about this, is firstly, great, let them get on with it, I hope they have fun, and secondly, I wish I was fifteen years younger.
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:32 PM   #79
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I think some people can and some people can't. There's the old cliche about women not being able to have no-strings attached sex without developing emotional attachments, and while there may be some truth in the stereotype, it's a huge over-generalisation as there are plenty of women that can have no-strings attached sex without becoming emotionally involved and there are plenty of men that become emotionally involved without having planned on doing on.

There's a saying in Ireland now among college age kids and kids in their twenties - "fuck buddies" - I think you can guess the meaning. And my reaction on reading about this, is firstly, great, let them get on with it, I hope they have fun, and secondly, I wish I was fifteen years younger.
Fair enough. Let me step out on a limb and modify what you've said: I'm gonna say "A few people can and most people can't."

Also, I'd should be clear that I in know way meant to suggest support for old-hat stereotypes. This is a human thing, not a woman thing.

I mean I get the appeal, I really do. The idea of "fuck buddies" and all that. But I can't help feeling that it's really a lot of wishful thinking for all but a few.
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:37 PM   #80
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There's a saying in Ireland now among college age kids and kids in their twenties - "fuck buddies" - I think you can guess the meaning. And my reaction on reading about this, is firstly, great, let them get on with it, I hope they have fun, and secondly, I wish I was fifteen years younger.
I've got news for you - this is not only exclusive to Ireland. I'm 32 and can remember this term being around when I was in high school.
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:47 PM   #81
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I've got news for you - this is not only exclusive to Ireland. I'm 32 and can remember this term being around when I was in high school.
Perhaps the term "crossed the pond" in recent years - I'm a few years older than you but not many, and I don't remember hearing this term in high school or even college, for that matter.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:05 PM   #82
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Fair enough. Let me step out on a limb and modify what you've said: I'm gonna say "A few people can and most people can't."

Also, I'd should be clear that I in know way meant to suggest support for old-hat stereotypes. This is a human thing, not a woman thing.

I mean I get the appeal, I really do. The idea of "fuck buddies" and all that. But I can't help feeling that it's really a lot of wishful thinking for all but a few.
Ok. I'd probably be of the opinion that most people can, and only a few can't - but really, neither of us can prove our point one way or the other, it's largely subjective/anecdotal either way.

To be blunt, it's just shagging, basically. No big deal, apart from being the most intensely enjoyable way to spend a few minutes/hours/nights/days that nature/God has given us. Granted, it used to be a bigger deal for the woman, but for quite a few years now, we've had contraceptives, and, in the case of Ireland, for example, we have less of the Roman Catholic guilt complex in the building - so, problem solved. (Ok, granted, I'm oversimplifying. But still).

Given that this is - in my opinion at least - largely a subjective debate anyway, and without going into the TMI territory, anecdotally, of my circle of friends and acquantainces, mostly in their mid 30's, mostly at the "settling-down" and "married-or-close-to-it" stage, I think the majority have had their moments and have had their no-strings attached one night stands and managed not to develop attachments based purely on, well, fucking.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:05 PM   #83
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But I can't help feeling that it's really a lot of wishful thinking for all but a few.
Given everything from pre-marital sex to divorce rates etc etc, seems the same can be said for fulfillment in life-long monogamy.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:19 PM   #84
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Given everything from pre-marital sex to divorce rates etc etc, seems the same can be said for fulfillment in life-long monogamy.
Perhaps. But I think we're talking about different types of wishful thinking. . .er. . .on second thought maybe not.

Then again, maybe so. At least for me, my choice for life-long monagamy isn't only about how I feel. It's mainly about a choice to be committed, with the understanding that I may not always "feel like" being committed, but I will be any way. Granted, not everyone approaches monagamy this way, but to go into it with the idea that "I'll always feel like I do right this moment as I look into your eyes" is yeah, wishful thinking.

On the other hand, the idea that I'm going to be fuck buddies with you but I promise I won't let myself become emotionally attached or start wanting to place any relationship demands to you IS wishful thinking, because you have no way of being able to predict, let alone control, how you will feel down the road.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:25 PM   #85
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I think the majority have had their moments and have had their no-strings attached one night stands and managed not to develop attachments based purely on, well, fucking.

I'm not suggesting that it's impossible to have sex with someone without feeling like OMG, I'm totally attached to you now. Obviously people have one night stands, casual sex etc. The age-old profession of prostitution is based on it.

I'm just questioning whether most of us really are capable of living in open relationships over the long haul without finding ourselves out in the emotional weeds. Is monagamy really an unnatural social construct that if we just let it go we could thrive without, or is the argument just a lot of fancy dressing to allow me to follow the impulse of the moment?
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:28 AM   #86
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Well, what practical steps have you taken to find a girlfriend?
There is no need for me to take practical steps in finding a girlfriend. I am an ugly loser. This is not an attitude. This is not an opinion. This is a FACT. I am kryptonite when it comes to women. I am ugly. I am a loser. There is not one thing attractive about me. And please do not say "it's your attitude that is unattractive." I can be the nicest, sweetest, most kind person with a great personality and sense of humor, and women still won't find me remotely attractive, because I have a big nose, a skinny face, and balding. I am utterly gross. Plus, I don't make much money, which explains the loser part of me.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:35 AM   #87
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:09 AM   #88
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I can be the nicest, sweetest, most kind person with a great personality and sense of humor,
But are you?
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:40 AM   #89
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There is no need for me to take practical steps in finding a girlfriend. I am an ugly loser. This is not an attitude. This is not an opinion. This is a FACT. I am kryptonite when it comes to women. I am ugly. I am a loser. There is not one thing attractive about me. And please do not say "it's your attitude that is unattractive." I can be the nicest, sweetest, most kind person with a great personality and sense of humor, and women still won't find me remotely attractive, because I have a big nose, a skinny face, and balding. I am utterly gross. Plus, I don't make much money, which explains the loser part of me.
Good Lord, Joe. If you don't see the glaring attitude problem in that post then you've got FAR bigger problems than your looks.

Read that as if it were someone other than yourself and ask yourself this: would I want to date someone with such a poor opinion of herself?

I was going to write a much larger response, but it's not even worth it. You've been on this forum for 6 years, and for 6 years it's always been the same. The only thing hopeless about your chances for a relationship is your attitude.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:12 PM   #90
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There is not one thing attractive about me.

I can be the nicest, sweetest, most kind person with a great personality and sense of humor, and women still won't find me remotely attractive, because I have a big nose, a skinny face, and balding.
Until you sincerely believe that being nice, sweet, kind with a great personality and sense of humour makes you worthy of love over and above how you look and how much money you make, you'll continue the kryptonite effect.

Believe it or not, some women are into big-nosed, skinny-faced, bald guys, but not ones that are pathetically neurotic about it.
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