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Old 04-27-2009, 09:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Fernando- View Post
Calm down people, measures are being taken to get rid of this thing. The world is not going to end.
Everyone in here is already calm - we're just discussing it.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:06 PM   #47
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I'm questioning if it is a cultural genetic mutation of some kind. As an example, it was noted that a disease that ravaged Scotland centuries ago left the remaining population, genetically, with a lower life expectancy, as the adaptation that caused the population to resist the illness also lowered their lifespan. Of course, over time now, it's becoming less relevant, as these genes become diluted.

A more contemporary example, the mutation that causes some people to be resistant to HIV infection happens to make them also highly susceptible to the most severe effects of the West Nile Virus infection. Likewise, the mutation that causes malaria resistance amongst some of those of African descent also leads to sickle cell anemia, if two carriers of the gene have children.

Anyway, that's just a thought of mine. Who knows if it has any credence, but it is possible that many Mexicans genetically acquired resistance to a long, lost infection from ages ago that has inadvertently made them more susceptible to this infection.
melon, have you checked out this site? Effect Measure I think it's right up your alley - all scientists, doctors and health care professionals. They've already had accurate inside information before it's been announced publicly. They were talking about this theory, too, but I can't find it now. But I think you'll find some of the discussions interesting, including the comments that follow the articles.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:17 PM   #48
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Im worried as hell now. Ive been feeling rough since the weekend and just now i seen this on google news.

UK on alert after suspected swine flu hits Manchester - Times Online

Sale is my hometown and i was down there in the weekend.
I missed this earlier. How are you?
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:27 PM   #49
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Everyone in here is already calm - we're just discussing it.
I said it because there's some people around here being scared and think that they might get it.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:05 AM   #50
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We have flu outbreaks every year, and always hundreds of people die from it, mostly old people. The pharma companies always stir hysteria by urging people to get vaccination, but me and most people I know have never had any flu vaccines and I have never got the flu, nor do I know anyone who has ever had the "real" flu. It's the same game every year at the same time.

The flu virus mutates every year, so new vaccines have to be developed. I've heard a report this morning that the "regular" flu is much more aggressive than the new "swine flu". The problem is that the swine flu has the potential to spread quickly, but it can easily be treated and the symptoms are not very bad. If you're already sick and have a weak immune system, every cold will affect you, but if you're healthy, you can deal with a virus like that. We had the bird flu a couple of years back and the media was spreading panick, in the end nothing happened and it was forgotten after a couple of weeks.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:46 AM   #51
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perhaps the cure for the pig flu is bacon. that would be awesome.

at least we can finally stop talking about MRSA
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:59 PM   #52
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:25 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by last unicorn View Post
We have flu outbreaks every year, and always hundreds of people die from it, mostly old people. The pharma companies always stir hysteria by urging people to get vaccination, but me and most people I know have never had any flu vaccines and I have never got the flu, nor do I know anyone who has ever had the "real" flu. It's the same game every year at the same time.

The flu virus mutates every year, so new vaccines have to be developed. I've heard a report this morning that the "regular" flu is much more aggressive than the new "swine flu". The problem is that the swine flu has the potential to spread quickly, but it can easily be treated and the symptoms are not very bad. If you're already sick and have a weak immune system, every cold will affect you, but if you're healthy, you can deal with a virus like that. We had the bird flu a couple of years back and the media was spreading panick, in the end nothing happened and it was forgotten after a couple of weeks.
That's a good point.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:34 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by last unicorn View Post
We have flu outbreaks every year, and always hundreds of people die from it, mostly old people. The pharma companies always stir hysteria by urging people to get vaccination, but me and most people I know have never had any flu vaccines and I have never got the flu, nor do I know anyone who has ever had the "real" flu. It's the same game every year at the same time.

The flu virus mutates every year, so new vaccines have to be developed. I've heard a report this morning that the "regular" flu is much more aggressive than the new "swine flu". The problem is that the swine flu has the potential to spread quickly, but it can easily be treated and the symptoms are not very bad. If you're already sick and have a weak immune system, every cold will affect you, but if you're healthy, you can deal with a virus like that. We had the bird flu a couple of years back and the media was spreading panick, in the end nothing happened and it was forgotten after a couple of weeks.


...yep indeed. Breaking down the media hysteria barrier is tough especially as long as we have tools like Wolf Blitzer and rags like the Daily Express, Daily Star & Daily Mail reporting on it...
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:25 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by last unicorn View Post
We have flu outbreaks every year, and always hundreds of people die from it, mostly old people. The pharma companies always stir hysteria by urging people to get vaccination, but me and most people I know have never had any flu vaccines and I have never got the flu, nor do I know anyone who has ever had the "real" flu. It's the same game every year at the same time.

The flu virus mutates every year, so new vaccines have to be developed. I've heard a report this morning that the "regular" flu is much more aggressive than the new "swine flu". The problem is that the swine flu has the potential to spread quickly, but it can easily be treated and the symptoms are not very bad. If you're already sick and have a weak immune system, every cold will affect you, but if you're healthy, you can deal with a virus like that. We had the bird flu a couple of years back and the media was spreading panick, in the end nothing happened and it was forgotten after a couple of weeks.

Just because you have not ever gotten the flu does not prove that the vaccine is not useful or needed. It's almost as poor as giving the example of a smoker who hasn't developed lung cancer. The fact remains that the flu vaccines saves countless lives and unneeded medical expenses every year. And it's hardly big pharma that pushes the vaccine - it's quality physicians and public heath agencies that recognize it's value. It's simply good health maintenance.

Also, the flu virus survives better in cold, dry conditions than hot and humid conditions now being seen in the northern hemisphere. This is not flu season for the northern hemisphere which makes this outbreak very unusual - winter is the typical period for such outbreaks to occur, which should be cause for alarm in it's own right that this virus is not obeying the typical rules. It is concerning that, as previously mentioned, we could believe this is under control and come winter be faced with a true pandemic and a mass casualty situation. Lets not forget that this virus is also very capable of mutating into a more virulent form.

While hysteria is certainly not needed, an overly cautious approach is most likely warranted. Lets see how this thing plays out hope that the caution was not needed rather have the opposite be true.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:33 PM   #56
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While hysteria is certainly not needed, an overly cautious approach is most likely warranted. Lets see how this thing plays out hope that the caution was not needed rather have the opposite be true.
Agree. While CNN, etc, may be hyping it, it does not change the fact that everyone who knows anything at all about new viruses, epidemics and pandemics, is very concerned.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:12 PM   #57
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We have flu outbreaks every year, and always hundreds of people die from it, mostly old people.
Thousands actually. Most pandemics also claim the most vulnerable (children, elderly, sick).

It would seem the appropriate alarm bells went off on this strain because it's been killing healthy young adults and it's a strain that hasn't been seen before and is an H1N1 subtype similar to the 1918 Spanish Flu.

Those seem to be good reasons for vigilance and caution (not panic) on behalf of health authorities to me.

The media will turn just about anything into a circus.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:46 PM   #58
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There's a good reason as to why a virus can kill a 20-54 demographic more vigorously than the usual "children and old people" demographic, and, as you might imagine, it's related to the immune system. While typical flu viruses kill based on weakened immune systems, which children and the elderly are more likely to have, these viruses kill, because it triggers the body's immune system to overreact, creating a fatal "cytokine storm." Thus, those with the most active immune systems--those aged 20-54 or so--are probably more likely to overreact to this flu virus and die from the cytokine storm, rather than the virus itself, which the younger and older people recover from.
I haven't read the whole thread, but this is exactly the case. Cytokine storms are thought to be the pathology behind many different diseases.

I've noted the media keep saying that this increased severity in young adults is something unique, as if it's not been seen before. Yet this epidemiology has most certainly been seen before, in the 1918 strain.

Of course, while I mention that, this strain has yet to appear as deadly as that strain was. Many h1N1 strains are typically mild (dont quote me, I dont have my books handy), as I recall from virology, although there are always exceptions.

Also, the involvement of swine is not surprising. Birds and pigs are the natural sources and mixing vessels for human flu viruses.



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Those seem to be good reasons for vigilance and caution (not panic) on behalf of health authorities to me.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by last unicorn View Post
We have flu outbreaks every year, and always hundreds of people die from it, mostly old people. The pharma companies always stir hysteria by urging people to get vaccination, but me and most people I know have never had any flu vaccines and I have never got the flu, nor do I know anyone who has ever had the "real" flu. It's the same game every year at the same time.

The flu virus mutates every year, so new vaccines have to be developed. I've heard a report this morning that the "regular" flu is much more aggressive than the new "swine flu". The problem is that the swine flu has the potential to spread quickly, but it can easily be treated and the symptoms are not very bad. If you're already sick and have a weak immune system, every cold will affect you, but if you're healthy, you can deal with a virus like that. We had the bird flu a couple of years back and the media was spreading panick, in the end nothing happened and it was forgotten after a couple of weeks.
You are correct on many counts.

However, with regards to avian flu, why nothing technically became of the fears is that although it was able to infect people, the virus never mutated in such a way to allow easy transference between people. Thus, the ability to spread was totally impeded. If the virus had mutated, the avian flu would have been a very serious concern.
Further, as I mentioned pigs and birds are the natural reservoirs of flu, thus there will in the future likely be another avian flu, but it will not be the same one, and if it shows the ability to infect people concern will once again be raised.

Pigs are a more direct source than birds for flu, as we share a common receptor with them (birds have salic2,4 while pigs and humans have salic1,4 I believe), making transference of virus from pigs to people far easier. What swine flu has shown, and what raises concern, is its ability to spread amongst people - this is what could make it a pandemic.

Media hype and scare tactics will not help matters however, it is merely a manner of concern - something we should monitor and try to contain, not panic about.

Also, with regards to flu vaccines, they idea of giving them to everyone is the theory of herd immunity. It contains spread, as even though you are young and healthy and may never show signs of being sick, you can still be a carrier and infect other people who are at risk.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:44 PM   #60
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While hysteria is certainly not needed, an overly cautious approach is most likely warranted. Lets see how this thing plays out hope that the caution was not needed rather have the opposite be true.
Agreed, but I found this observation to be funny:

Snoutbreak '09 - The Last 100 Days | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
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