Hello herci,
thank you for taking time to write this and share your experiences.
FYM benefits greatly from having different points of view.
I don't have much to contribute, here in California, most of the complaining is about Latino immigration.
If I moved to Morocco or Turkey and lived their for even 10 years, I don't think I would be able to abandon my western culture.
Hi,
I'm sure if I would move to Marocco or Turkey I wouldn't be able to adapt to the muslim culture. But of course I don't choose to go and live there. I also feel like that 'culture' is way behind the western culture. Like catholicism in the early 20th century was. (women not being equal to men etc..) I'm not even saying that those people should abandon their culture. We just have to show them that their 'culture' is often abused by certain men who have a lot of power in the muslim community. Is wearing a head scarf something that is written in the koran? There have been so many discussions about it. My mother travelled to Turkey about 6 times and a guide told her that in the beginning women wore a head scarf to protect theirselves from the heat. Even in Turkey young women have stopped wearing it. Here is Belgium almost every muslim woman wears one? Why? Because most of the muslims in Belgium are far more extreme then those in their home countries.
I have seen girls where I went to school who wore a headscarf when they arrived at the school gates (their father brought them) and they instantly removed it when their father was out of their view. In the evening they put it on again so their father wouldn't notice. I had a friend who was 20. Quite western, I thought, suddenly I stopped hearing her, a year later I saw her again, she had to go to Turkey, choose a men amongst 5 choices or so. He came to Belgium. They started a kebab business (as a lot of them do) and she got pregnant. I couldn't even imagine winding up in such a situation.
You'd think that younger generations would change things, but they have no choice, there's so much pressure from their family. (mostly their brothers and fathers). We know several muslim girls, who want to marry a Belgian man, who even have a relationship with them. But they are scared to hell that their family would find out. They said their brothers would beat the sh*t out of that man and they would no longer be part of the family. Some of them work very hard, have to give all the money to their parents and brothers. Brothers don't work altough they have a diploma and they can get a job. But they prefer to make quick money and deal drugs and all sorts of that stuff.
They are controlled constantly. As I see it now...it doesn't look good at all.
We have cities like Antwerp and Brussels where there are muslim only neighbourhoods. Sort of the chinatown things like in america. The problem is that there is so much crime over there. Belgians move away, because they are constantly harassed, they are scared to leave the house after 7PM. You can't leave your car on the street because your window is smashed several times a week by 10 year olds who wander on the streets in the evening or at night. Even if you drive a 20 yr old car, and you leave open every drawer in your car so they can see there is nothing worth to steal they smash the windows. People are so frustrated in certain places.
In one of the best selling magazines in Belgium they have done survey amongst muslims. And 80% of them wouldn't allow their children to marry a non muslim. Isn't that racism? So as long as they keep getting their husbands and wives from their home countries nothing will change.
There is also a lot of hypocrisy about relationships. Muslims girls have to be a virgin when they marry. But not the men. They mess around with Belgian girls. Several times those guys tried to hit om me. I was standing at a bus station once, and one came up asked me if I had a boyfriend and simply asked : do you want a relationship with me
just like that...
I once walked alone in the city at around 12PM a 3 of those guys came closer and they always start talking to you and laughing and try to annoy you. I just nodded hello and walked a bit faster. There have been numerous cases of women and young who have been harassed by those guys. So I was lucky they didn't follow me. They always mention the fact that other men have to leave their sisters alone, or they would get agressive. But they do those things to Belgian women all the time, the reason they give is because we are western, so we are sort of whores in their eyes. And we don't wear a headscarf, some of us drink and smoke, we go out late...that is all very wrong in their eyes and that gives them a reason to annoy us. We are looking for trouble.
One of my friends had a relationship with a muslim. of course his parents didn't know. She thought she would end up being married with him. About 3 years later he left her to marry a girl of his home country. She got used.
My mother had a relationship with someone who lived in turkey. He kept asking for money, she gave him some because he really was poor. Altough he worked. After a 2 year relationship she found out he was married to a young virgin. If my mother didn't out, she would still be travelling to turkey...
At my previous school; a lot of those families didn't pay the school bills. When we went to the sea for a week, a kid even had the choice. Go to the sea with his class or get a playstation. of course he chose the last. Then the parents told the school they had no money for that kind of trips and the school ends up paying for us. Because they think every child is equal and they all should have the chance to do these things... So many examples..so frustrating! A lot of them go to catholic schools, because it's the closest school in the neighbourhood. BUT when we have a service in church most of them are not allowed to enter the church of their parent. But hello they go to a catholic school. A minority is respectful and goes to the service but they don't participate in prayers and so on.
A kid of my class has muslim parents but they are adapted without losing their culture. they eat what we eat. They don't complain about the food at school. Because it's not halal. They even eat porc. I heard when they go to the butcher and ask for porc their whole street shouts bad stuff at them. (the street is a muslim street) It's called social control.
Certain swimming pools have special hours for muslim women, because their men don't allow them to swim when other men are nearby.
I feel like the whole country is adapting to muslim society instead of the opposite.
My opinion: if you move to another country, you have to
-learn the language and just at least try to speak it.
-go to the stores of the country, and not just all the muslim stores
-accept the culture in the country where you live in
You don't have to get rid of your own culture, you can still eat and drink whatever you want. You can keep you religion. Speak your language with your family. Although you have to try to speak the country language with your children once in a while.
And adapt your clothing style a bit to the style of the country.
I find it totally unacceptable that women wear head scarves of burka's because I find it discriminating against women. There are even children (starting age 10) who have to wear them. You're not telling me, it is their choice. It's their parents choice. And it looks bloody horrible too.
And you see that they are not comfortable wearing them.
I sometimes see african women who wear their colorfull dresses and they look nice... see they still keep their culture... but they are not discriminated.
I must say, I think in 20-30 years. The majority will be muslims in Belgium. And that is a danger to our democracy and the equality between men and women.
) About 90% of them only speak arabic at home. And the boys are allowed to be on the streets and do whatever they want. Causing the fact that there are gangs of kids of 13 and 14 years who rob and annoy women and other people.
