HyperU2
War Child
I wasn't really comparing deaths, most homicides occur because of intent. More often than not I'd say a gun used in self defense isn't fired. If it only happens 100,000 times a year instead of 2,000,000 they're still worth having.
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I wasn't really comparing deaths, most homicides occur because of intent. More often than not I'd say a gun used in self defense isn't fired. If it only happens 100,000 times a year instead of 2,000,000 they're still worth having.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is pretty hard to prove don't you think? In fact how do you even determine if this has occured?
If it's only one life or 5 lives saved it's still worth not allowing certain guns in the hands of citizens.
^See that logic works both ways.
HyperU2
War Child
I know that in the two cases here last year no shots were fired, so I can figure it happened twice a year for every 20,000 people and no shots were ever fired.
I'm all for letting people have the Right to make that decision on their own.
I'm all for letting people have the Right to make that decision on their own.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Yes but sometimes that right will infringe on people's right to live.
We can speak in platitudes all day long...
We can speak in platitudes all day long...
bigjohn2441
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ill post this again cause only 1 person responded and i seems to have been lost in back pages.
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
It's easy to sit at your computer, safe and sound, having never been a victim of gun violence to mouth off about how guns don't kill people, people kill people. The point is guns DO maim and kill people, and if anyone you love, god forbid, is ever a victim of gun crime, well then, you may find yourself switching your position on firearms.
Is that the response you were hoping for?
Is that the response you were hoping for?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I don't know, it's hard to speculate... I can only speak from my experiences, I have the unfortunate fact that I know quite a few very close friends that have been raped in their lifetime, but I don't know one that took up caring a gun.
I guess the same question could be turned around. How many gun enthusiasts change their stance or get rid of all their guns after their child shoots themselves, or some other accident happens?
bigjohn2441
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martha
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bigjohn2441
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But I used the words you used.
Does that make me as intelligent as you?
nope, you are clearly much smarter than me
im not in the mood for this today, so ill be back tomorrow maybe
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
That's all you got?
I must be.
Seriously, why was your only response to my post a snide remark about my intelligence?
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
Not in the mood for a response you asked for? Then why ask for it?
I lived through a war as a child.
I am staunchly in favour of strong gun regulations.
I think you mistakenly assume that those of us who "lived through things" in life all become paranoid gun-fanatics.
HyperU2
War Child
And I've got a friend from there who feels the opposite.
Of course, people are not clones of each other.
I just didn't particularly care for that post of yours, it came across as really patronizing and assuming.
HyperU2
War Child
Mine?
yolland
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I was beaten up in the course of an attempted rape once (not anyone I knew). Not terribly, a few broken fingers, some bruised ribs, a busted lip and the clothes I was wearing were pretty much ruined...probably would've been worse if it hadn't happened in a riskily busy area (for the assailant). It didn't make me want to carry a gun nor any other weapon, not least because they would've been no use to me given how the situation unfolded. Very often that's the case; you're not given the benefit of seeing the attack coming. What did help somewhat was the half-hour crash course on basic self-defense tactics we'd been given in health class back in high school.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Sorry to hear about your experience Yolland...
bigjohn2441
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i dont think some of you read too well. i said I WONDER how many victims got guns after, or supported them afterwards. i never said they all did or do. christ.
might want to read my post again before you get too offended.
AliEnvy
Refugee
Holy crap, what a horrible experience...very sorry that happened to you!
Excellent points about real self-defense that gun ownership doesn't provide.
No, it was more your implication that we're sitting here cushy without an understanding for what goes on out there in the big, bad world.
bigjohn2441
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didnt i say i wasnt directing it at anyone and that no i dont know what you have been through?
again, learn to read better
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
You're awfully defensive at our responses. Maybe we read just fine, and you're the one who needs to think things through a little better; it could be that your assumptions were way off the mark.
bigjohn2441
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ha, i could care less. yesterday was just a shitty day at work and i didnt feel like arguing on the internet 
when i clearly state in my posts that im not directing it at anyone on here nor i dont know what you all have gone through, and clearly say "i wonder" how many victims get/support guns afterwards NOT that they all do, and people seem to get pissy about it, it makes me think they cant read too well.
my assumptions way off the mark? so if you and your family were about to be raped and killed you wouldnt want a gun or wish someone else had one? and how do you know how you would feel after something like that? and just because you THINK you would feel a certain way after being a victim of a violent crime doesnt mean everyone else would think that way.
i guess that arguement could go the other way in that people involved in gun accidents could give up their guns.
but let me do what some people on here did:
a few years back i was going to karate class and when i got there there was blood all over the floor in the instrutors office and he wasnt there. well he accidentally shot himself in the hand about 20 minutes prior with a .45 pistol while cleaning it or unloading it or something. but he still has all his guns and is still strongly pro-gun. that must mean EVERYONE involved in a gun accident still likes guns and it didnt affect them.
see what im getting at? just because YOU have or know of an experience that is contrary to my agrument doesnt mean it's like that across the board.
when i clearly state in my posts that im not directing it at anyone on here nor i dont know what you all have gone through, and clearly say "i wonder" how many victims get/support guns afterwards NOT that they all do, and people seem to get pissy about it, it makes me think they cant read too well.
my assumptions way off the mark? so if you and your family were about to be raped and killed you wouldnt want a gun or wish someone else had one? and how do you know how you would feel after something like that? and just because you THINK you would feel a certain way after being a victim of a violent crime doesnt mean everyone else would think that way.
i guess that arguement could go the other way in that people involved in gun accidents could give up their guns.
but let me do what some people on here did:
a few years back i was going to karate class and when i got there there was blood all over the floor in the instrutors office and he wasnt there. well he accidentally shot himself in the hand about 20 minutes prior with a .45 pistol while cleaning it or unloading it or something. but he still has all his guns and is still strongly pro-gun. that must mean EVERYONE involved in a gun accident still likes guns and it didnt affect them.
see what im getting at? just because YOU have or know of an experience that is contrary to my agrument doesnt mean it's like that across the board.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
We get that, I'm just not quite sure if you do...
bigjohn2441
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how could i not get it if im the one that said it? thats why i said "i wonder" in my post.
you dont know how many people are against guns and feel the same after being the victim of a violent crime and i dont know how many go out and get them or support them after.
i was just bringing up a point for discussion, i wasnt saying more people do than dont. i dont know how that got into your heads. maybe cause you cant read too well.
martha
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bigjohn2441
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And we discussed it. And you got defensive.
like i said, yesterday was shitty at work and i was pissed off at the time and didnt feel like "discussing"
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
John, you say that but you just got finished writing:
After some of us told you our personal experience, you still proceed under your assumption that we don't know how we would feel if we were put in that situation.
You have become very assumptive and defensive the last couple of days and you've lost your normal calm collective reasonable means to discussing this subject. I have actually found you to be one of the few reasonable pro-gun debaters in FYM, but you come off a little rattled the last two days.
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