HyperU2
War Child
So despite Assault rifles and concealed carry permits resulting in very little of the overall murders this sounds like a good plan? That's why we pro gun folks feel that attacking one thing is a step towards banning all.
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So despite Assault rifles and concealed carry permits resulting in very little of the overall murders this sounds like a good plan? That's why we pro gun folks feel that attacking one thing is a step towards banning all.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
It shouldn't be hard for you to say, you're the one that made the claim.
Here, 27% of all homes own guns. The rest are free to as well, provided they don't have prior criminal activity in their backgrounds.
Paranoia.
HyperU2
War Child
So if Finland and Switzerland have a lot of guns and low homicide rates, I guess Americans just like killing each other, with or without guns.
Paranoia is exactly why people want those things banned.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
No, that is overly simplified reasoning, and the more I read of your "reasoning," the more I tend to think that you really are just an overly paranoid gun nut who will use any rationalization to continue to keep your dearly held freedom to bear arms, despite the damage it's doing to your society.
Stricter gun controls = a greater chance that the guns will actually end up being owned by the people who can legally and responsibly own them, and not bought on impulse to commit crimes or to end up on the black market in huge numbers for criminals to easily buy.
I don't think we're the paranoid ones, we're the ones with statistics and facts to back up what we're saying. Our concerns are based on reality.
HyperU2
War Child
Ahh gun nut. I figured it wouldn't take long for name calling. I've stated plenty of statistics. Particularly about rifles and concealed carry. The blind don't want to see that. Your opinion doesn't even matter though.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
The more lives we save the better.
Do you know how many lives were saved by concealed carry permits last year?
So you are all paranoid?
HyperU2
War Child
The more lives we save the better.
Do you know how many lives were saved by concealed carry permits last year?
So you are all paranoid?
I know there were 159 handguns used in justifiable homicides last year, hard to tell who was carrying or home at the time. But firing a shot isn't the only way that concealed carry protects someone, just pulling a gun can end a situation. You're all as paranoid as we are.
bigjohn2441
Refugee
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whoa, im without internet for a couple days and look what i missed! 
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Yeah. It took me 15 pages to state what I see. I think I deserve props for that, actually.
Your Florida concealed weapons number? That's fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion. How many murders were committed by those who had their permits revoked? Whatever number it is, it's too many. Plus, that's not even taking into account the number of guns that are out there and being used in homicides that are unregistered, but are available to criminals/the black market mostly due to your open gun culture and easy availability of weapons down there.
Because I live in another country, my opinion doesn't matter in here? Funny, all kinds of people in FYM comment about international matters, and they've always been welcome. So yeah, I think I'll just keep commenting anyway.
yolland
Forum Moderator
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They don't have high handgun ownership rates, and that's the type used in 80% of our gun homicides. Based on 1990s data which is all I've seen, Switzerland is the only one of those 'other countries' with double-digit household handgun ownership rates, and then only 12% compared to our 28.5% (all the others were below 7% on handgun ownership). Furthermore, only military officers, medical and postal personnel may keep handguns in Switzerland, and like Finland they have compulsory military service, which obviously makes a difference in skills with and attitudes towards guns. (By contrast, several of those countries have double-digit hunting/military-issue rifle ownership rates...Norway, Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Australia...though still considerably lower than ours in every case).
HyperU2
War Child
Yeah. It took me 15 pages to state what I see. I think I deserve props for that, actually.
Your Florida concealed weapons number? That's fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion. How many murders were committed by those who had their permits revoked? Whatever number it is, it's too many. Plus, that's not even taking into account the number of guns that are out there and being used in homicides that are unregistered, but are available to criminals/the black market mostly due to your open gun culture and easy availability of weapons down there.
Because I live in another country, my opinion doesn't matter in here? Funny, all kinds of people in FYM comment about international matters, and they've always been welcome. So yeah, I think I'll just keep commenting anyway.
It can matter in here all you'd like. It won't have any effect on gun control though.
1.4 million issued and 166 revoked for firearms crimes (type not stated)? Oh yeah, that makes no difference. Criminals don't care about concealed carry permits or gun laws. Or laws against murder for that matter.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
That's a really good point, yolland. Nothing that I saw (I didn't search all that carefully, though) broke down the numbers here between rifles and handguns, but I have to assume that the vast majority here are rifles. Especially since the only use for handguns here, outside of crime, of course, is shooting ranges, and you have to get special permits to transfer them, etc. Makes it not worth the effort to anyone but the most hardcore shooting range enthusiasts.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
HyperU2
War Child
I just want to be clear that you want to ban all guns, legal and illegal right?
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
No, I never said that. I don't believe that anyone here did.
In fact, people have made suggestions as to what they'd like to see, people other than me, and you've openly dismissed them without even discussing it, or offering counter suggestions, or reasons why you feel that it should stay the same, other than vague rumblings about protecting yourself. You seem to have no interest in discussing, or realistically considering societal problems, other than maintaining the status quo.
HyperU2
War Child
So just banning all handguns?
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
No, not necessarily even that, but I sincerely don't understand the reason that any private citizen should need to carry them. In my view, it's not necessary, and for reasons stated earlier in the thread (reasons you disagreed with), I think it's counterproductive and even dangerous.
Without being defensive, or flippant, are you aware of gun control laws in Canada? How much do you know about them, specifically?
I'm wondering, what do you think the flaws in our system are, considering that our homicide rates are MUCH lower? Are there any freedoms you currently have that you'd be willing to concede in order for your society to become safer, overall?
HyperU2
War Child
I don't pay attention to laws that don't affect me.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Well being the way that the law is defined it's hard to tell.
That's a pretty small number, and I wouldn't doubt that some of those are false. Some get away with it due to lack of evidence and some it's just too easy to fake.
In fact the end of last year we had a case here in Texas where they found new evidence that a shooting that was first found to be self defence may have in fact been a set up and there was concern about how the law can deal with this new evidence.
HyperU2
War Child
Ok 158. Leaving out the woundings and non shootings.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
I guess it's kind of difficult for you to consider alternate views, or for you to comment on the efficacy of US laws compared to other nations if you don't take the time to inform yourself.
HyperU2
War Child
I don't have a problem with US laws as they exist.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
But you do realize that you've just left yourself in a position where you cannot argue that the US way of handing guns is as effective or better than other industrialized nations, right?
HyperU2
War Child
So come change it.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
That's what I thought. 
HyperU2
War Child
That's what I thought.
Likewise. All talk. It's a shame that all the people that want our guns aren't armed.
I have no problem with our handling or our numbers. We have more cars and more deaths by car as well. Big deal.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Big deal? 
It's just human lives.
Cars and driving laws are in constant state of evolution in order to try and save lives.
But you're ok with the numbers so no need to try and change, that way you can have your shits and giggles.
It's just human lives.Cars and driving laws are in constant state of evolution in order to try and save lives.
But you're ok with the numbers so no need to try and change, that way you can have your shits and giggles.
HyperU2
War Child
I like to drive and I like to shoot. The laws for driving are as ineffective as the ones for guns, but they're all in place so we should feel better.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Are you sure? Making you wait sometimes isn't impeding on your enjoyment? Are you sure wouldn't want a gun mount on top of your car?
HyperU2
War Child
They don't make me wait. We have instant background checks now. Last time I bought a handgun I walked out of the store in 20 mins. I've owned a handgun for 16 yrs now and no one has died. Shocking.
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