HyperU2
War Child
Our murder rate for average citizens is equal or less than other countries, even though we own a shit ton of guns.
MERGED--> all Gun Control discussion
- Thread starter deep
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
"Average citizens"? What defines an "average citizen"?
HyperU2
War Child
Not a gang banger. lol
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
So do you think we could rid our gang banger population by just teaching them good morals like iron horse said?
Arming more average citizens?
Stop immigration?
Ban gay marriage?
Or all of the above?
Arming more average citizens?
Stop immigration?
Ban gay marriage?
Or all of the above?
HyperU2
War Child
I don't arm myself because I fear gang bangers. I don't arm myself out of fear at all. Gang members and "bad drug deals" generally result in the deaths of gang members and drug dealers. I don't support banning firearms ownership by people that have never and will never commit a crime just because we happen to have that sort of populace. There are plenty of gun laws on the books that don't affect the criminal element as it is.
I support gay marriage and immigrants, but nice generalization.
I support gay marriage and immigrants, but nice generalization.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
People seem to think all gun owners are killers. Experience has showed me otherwise. Gotta stay balanced.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
No one has even come close to saying that...
You sure do build up the straw man a lot.
But I do think that most that buy guns are willing to kill, otherwise why buy one?
HyperU2
War Child
Most don't buy their guns because they want to kill. They're fun to shoot and help a lot when you go hunting. You seem to live in the Minority Report world more than I do.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
i don't think anyone is blaming responsible gun owners for committing gun crimes.
i am asking, however, and this is just me, that you acknowledge that the right you have to your guns is the direct cause of most of the murders in the United States and is the reason why our murder rate is so much higher than everyone else's in the Western world. i want you to acknowledge the fact that Americans are no more innately violent than anyone else, they just have an easier time getting handguns, and then i want to know that you think that this is all worth it.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
You didn't read what I wrote.
I didn't say they want to kill. But most if not all that own guns are willing to... because that's what guns do. No matter if you bought it to hunt or self defense somewhere in your heart you are willing to kill. Now I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing.
I think most will buy a gun hoping they won't ever have to use it. But it's those that carry on themselves that scare me. It's those that don't respect the gun that scare me. It's those that just think they are fun and cool that scare me.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
I also think it's rather naive to believe that all the guns used by gangs come from Mexico, and that tighter gun controls in the US wouldn't have an impact on the vast supply available to gangs/criminals.
Because of this thread, I was looking at our gun/crime stats here in Canada the other day. We have to jump through a few more hoops to get/own guns, and carrying handguns is illegal here, yet we're no less "free" than US citizens, our murder rates are much lower per capita, and any non-criminal has the full right to own guns.
I fail to see how we're at a disadvantage, here.
Because of this thread, I was looking at our gun/crime stats here in Canada the other day. We have to jump through a few more hoops to get/own guns, and carrying handguns is illegal here, yet we're no less "free" than US citizens, our murder rates are much lower per capita, and any non-criminal has the full right to own guns.
I fail to see how we're at a disadvantage, here.
UberBeaver
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
Sounds to me like you're not free to carry a handgun at shoot your fellow citizen. You know what we call that? Yep. Slavery. Socialist Fascist Slavery.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
most US gun crime happens in the summer when the kids and the criminals are out on the streets.
in Canada, you have no summer to speak of.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
I know. Just the other day I was wishing I could pick off some jaywalkers, but then I remembered that I live in Canada.
Oh, Irvine, you have so much to learn about guns and Canada. We have two seasons - snow and heat and humidity. Where handguns would be most useful is during the dark winter months. That's when the stir-craziness and paranoia starts to set in.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
Our murder rate is higher because of gangs not guns.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
We have gangs here, too.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
They won't be unarmed after legal gun owners are.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
you're dodging the issue.
guns make criminals more deadly. this has nothing to do with legal gun owners. no one is talking about legal gun owners. get over yourself.
the issue is that the ease of arming yourself in the United States -- whether you are a criminal or not -- drastically increases our murder rate in comparison to other countries who have similar social problems but do not have the murder rate that we do.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
They probably wouldn't be armed in the first place if some kind of control occured decades ago.
Where do you think the blackmarket supply comes from?
HyperU2
War Child
Oh I see, I thought by wanting to eliminate all guns you meant those of legal gun owners too.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Who are you talking to?
I'm not sure I've seen anyone say they want to eliminate all guns, yet you keep bringing it up...
That damn strawman just keeps hanging around here... maybe he's looking for a brain.
HyperU2
War Child
So what sort of control are you looking for?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
yolland
Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 7,471
Which "other countries" did you have in mind?
As VP pointed out, gangs are far from a uniquely American problem. But, for the sake of argument, even if you were to take our homicide rate (5.6) and subtract 45% (yielding 3.08) on the assumption that my 'gang-related' calculation was correct, and on the pretense that it's a "fairer" comparison--that's still *more than double* the homicide rates of Canada, Australia, Germany, Poland, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium and Portugal. And still considerably higher than the UK's 2.03 rate, Sweden's 2.39, Finland's 2.75 and Switzerland's 2.94.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Well I've already talked about a lot of it...
First and foremost put the assault rifle ban back into effect.
Secondly do not allow private individuals to carry on themselves.
I think once you eliminate the legal demand of automatic and assault rifles and limit the manufacturing to military and police only you will eventually eliminate the supply to the black market. And by also controlling the ammo.
And then eventually I would like to see handguns gone, but I haven't seen a completely thoughtout plan yet.
It would be a slow process, this we know.
HyperU2
War Child
Hard to say, I mean Finland and Switzerland have a ton of privately owned guns too.
Similar threads
