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Old 04-13-2009, 10:35 PM   #106
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They put an untrained college kid in a classroom and sent in a firearms instructor who knew where the kid was seated. Somewhat obvious outcome if you ask me. They ignore that most mass shooters are untrained as well, and surprise is on the armed victims side.
Untrained kid? As I said, some of them had a great deal of shooting range experience. If I remember correctly, one of them with the most experience was one of the ones who couldn't even unholster their weapon.

And, the point of it wasn't for the shooter to shoot the kid first - the point was to show what would happen if an armed person began shooting in a public place where an ordinary citizen was armed, to show how effective that ordinary citizen would be. The result was very telling.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:37 PM   #107
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Shooting ranges aren't the same as the training in combat situations that their adversaries had. Put those kids up against each other instead of an instructor and it'd be a fair test.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:47 PM   #108
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Shooting ranges aren't the same as the training in combat situations that their adversaries had. Put those kids up against each other instead of an instructor and it'd be a fair test.


Did you even see it? I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse, here. Like I said, that's not the point. It doesn't matter how much experience the shooter has. Even an untrained shooter going into a lecture hall has the element of surprise on his side. The point was, once panic breaks out, how do ordinary people, both with and without gun training, react? Again, they were completely useless in that situation, and in some cases, they would have done harm to innocent people.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:52 PM   #109
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That show made it looks like your best bet is to be unarmed and sit there and get shot. No thanks. It matters greatly if you're going against someone else who has the same amount of training.

I doubt this fellow trained every day.

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Old 04-13-2009, 10:56 PM   #110
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Shooting ranges aren't the same as the training in combat situations that their adversaries had. Put those kids up against each other instead of an instructor and it'd be a fair test.
In a real life situation they wouldn't be up "against each other" either. They would be against someone who was willing (eager, even) to kill anyone and also most likely willing (eager, even) to die. I bet in the vast majority of cases there would be more carnage, not less.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:58 PM   #111
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In a real life situation they wouldn't be up "against each other" either. They would be against someone who was willing (eager, even) to kill anyone and also most likely willing (eager, even) to die. I bet in the vast majority of cases there would be more carnage, not less.

The fact is they wouldn't be up against someone else that trains for hours every week. You can bet all you'd like. Spree shootings are rare anyway so it's stupid to pretend like they're a huge problem. I'd say less than 1% of gun deaths yearly.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:01 PM   #112
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That show made it looks like your best bet is to be unarmed and sit there and get shot. No thanks.
You'd probably be more apt to live if there was only one person shooting, even if that one person was trying to kill as many as possible, than you would be if one person burst in shooting and ten people all around the room drew their guns and started shooting.

You think you'd be able to control the situation. But you wouldn't be able to -- it would be havoc.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:04 PM   #113
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I'd rather have the chance.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:05 PM   #114
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That show made it looks like your best bet is to be unarmed and sit there and get shot. No thanks. It matters greatly if you're going against someone else who has the same amount of training.

I doubt this fellow trained every day.

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It wasn't a one-on-one situation. It was a shooter who entered the room and started shooting randomly, that's it. The individuals in question didn't have time to stop and assess the shooter's skill level, so his skill level didn't matter. What mattered were the reactions of the individuals selected, and in the chaos and panic, none of them reacted well. Good lord.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:09 PM   #115
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This is why I hate arguing gun politics with people that have no clue about firearms. You'll never get the point so go suck on the media.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:10 PM   #116
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I'd rather have the chance.
I would too. That's why I would much, much rather not have people -- even otherwise normal people -- having guns in public places. I'd have a much better chance of getting out alive if there aren't a whole bunch of wannabe heroes playing gunfighter.

If you and I are both in that same room when a gunman bursts in and I get killed by you when you are trying to be a hero, I'm gonna be mighty damned pissed. And I will haunt your ass forever. Plus, I hope my relatives will sue the living shit out of you.

(and my brother is also a gun freak so I've heard all your arguments ad nauseam)
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:10 PM   #117
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I would too. That's why I would much, much rather not have people -- even otherwise normal people -- having guns in public places. I'd have a much better chance of getting out alive if there aren't a whole bunch of wannabe heros playing gunfighter.

If you and I are both in that same room when a gunman bursts in and I get killed by you when you are trying to be a hero, I'm gonna be mighty damned pissed. And I will haunt your ass forever. Plus, I hope my relatives will sue the living shit out of you.

I'd take a bullet for you long before I'd put one in you.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:21 PM   #118
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Shooting ranges aren't the same as the training in combat situations that their adversaries had. Put those kids up against each other instead of an instructor and it'd be a fair test.
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Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
That show made it looks like your best bet is to be unarmed and sit there and get shot. No thanks. It matters greatly if you're going against someone else who has the same amount of training.

I doubt this fellow trained every day.

NJ Man Killed At SC Alcoholics Anonymous Center | WJBF

Wow, you completely missed the point, and then you react with this:

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This is why I hate arguing gun politics with people that have no clue about firearms. You'll never get the point so go suck on the media.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:24 PM   #119
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This is why I hate arguing gun politics with people that have no clue about firearms. You'll never get the point so go suck on the media.
This is why I hate arguing gun politics with people who have no idea about the psychological processes that the human mind and body go through during crisis situations.

I lived with an avid hunter and marksman for 10 years, and there used to be a shitload of guns in this house. I'm glad to be rid of both him and them.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:25 PM   #120
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If I'm ever involved in a mass shooting and I'm armed, I'm just getting behind the Liberals.
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