MERGED--> all Gun Control discussion - Page 49 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2009, 03:53 PM   #721
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 02:23 PM
Hypotheticals
__________________

__________________
martha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 03:58 PM   #722
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Please explain what you mean by "neutralize." If by neutralize you mean explain (and show) to the robber that you have a gun, are highly trained in its use and that they'd better comply while you call the cops and/or cuff them, then yes, by all means, use it to "neutralize" the intruder.

If by neutralize you mean shoot first, ask questions later, then no.

neutralize was a term used during my training for my job that means fire center mass until your threat goes away. neutralize your threat.

if someone is breaking into my house, how do i know it's a robber? how do i know what their intentions are? how do i know if they are armed? how do i know if they discover i am there they wont simply run away, but attack me? how do i know if i announce my presence and "show" them my gun, they dont pull one on me and open fire? im not going to risk my life by assuming they arent armed or are just there to steal stuff. Like i said if it's me vs them its gonna be me.

As i said before i live alone so anybody that is breaking into my apartment late at night is up to no good, not a family member that lost a key or something.

but if i could clearly see and be absolutely sure that they werent a deadly threat and not armed, i probably wouldnt shoot first. but if it's dark and i am still half asleep, im coming out blasting.
__________________

__________________
bigjohn2441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 04:11 PM   #723
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,236
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
but if i could clearly see and be absolutely sure that they werent a deadly threat, i probably not shoot first. but if it's dark and i am still half asleep, im coming out blasting.
So you're saying that if you couldn't get a totally clear view, then without any warning whatsoever you would shoot to kill an intruder? You'd be ok if you come out blasting and end up killing some homeless kid trying to steal food from your fridge, just because you're sleepy and don't have a totally clear view?

Wow.

To the rest:

Quote:
if someone is breaking into my house, how do i know it's a robber? how do i know what their intentions are? how do i know if they are armed? how do i know if they discover i am there they wont simply run away, but attack me? how do i know if i announce my presence and "show" them my gun, they dont pull one on me and open fire? im not going to risk my life by assuming they arent armed or are just there to steal stuff. Like i said if it's me vs them its gonna be me.
As to your hypotheticals, you don't know. However, given that you're dealing with taking someone's life when you haven't yet ascertained their motives/level of threat, I'm just a bit disturbed that you think the best move is to shoot to kill when unsure. Personally I'd rather not be responsible for killing some poor dumb kid who had his eye on my tv and came armed with nothing but a rock to break the window. I'd rather give the guy the option to follow orders. You've already got the upper hand as you've got your weapon drawn and trained on the intruder.
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 04:31 PM   #724
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
So you're saying that if you couldn't get a totally clear view, then without any warning whatsoever you would shoot to kill an intruder? You'd be ok if you come out blasting and end up killing some homeless kid trying to steal food from your fridge, just because you're sleepy and don't have a totally clear view?

Wow.

To the rest:



As to your hypotheticals, you don't know. However, given that you're dealing with taking someone's life when you haven't yet ascertained their motives/level of threat, I'm just a bit disturbed that you think the best move is to shoot to kill when unsure. Personally I'd rather not be responsible for killing some poor dumb kid who had his eye on my tv and came armed with nothing but a rock to break the window. I'd rather give the guy the option to follow orders. You've already got the upper hand as you've got your weapon drawn and trained on the intruder.
as i said my part of the island is kind of isolated from the rest. so i doubt there would be any people just passing by that decide to rob my place. also, like i also said, there are bars on the windows and my front door would be pretty hard to get through, as well as the dogs raising all hell, so anyone that can get into my apartment would probably be pretty determined.
and lots of the "kids" here in the VI pack illegal guns.
__________________
bigjohn2441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 05:11 PM   #725
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Hypotheticals
Hopefully they stay that way.
__________________
HyperU2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 05:17 PM   #726
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Hypotheticals
helps the work day go by
__________________
bigjohn2441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 07:19 PM   #727
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,236
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
as i said my part of the island is kind of isolated from the rest. so i doubt there would be any people just passing by that decide to rob my place. also, like i also said, there are bars on the windows and my front door would be pretty hard to get through, as well as the dogs raising all hell, so anyone that can get into my apartment would probably be pretty determined.
and lots of the "kids" here in the VI pack illegal guns.
So even if someone was determined to break in, they could just be determined to steal some of your stuff. That's worth shooting killing someone who possibly has no intention of physically harming anyone?
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 07:21 PM   #728
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,277
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
but if it's dark and i am still half asleep, im coming out blasting.
Lawsuit waiting to happen.
__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 07:33 PM   #729
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Lawsuit waiting to happen.

Not in some states. I know in Texas it's considered self defense once they are in your home, car or work place. So you can literally invite the person over that you want to murder, shoot them and then claim self defense.

That's why I don't buy the "254 self defense killings" number.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 08:01 PM   #730
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,277
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Not in some states. I know in Texas it's considered self defense once they are in your home, car or work place. So you can literally invite the person over that you want to murder, shoot them and then claim self defense.

That's why I don't buy the "254 self defense killings" number.
It's self-defence everywhere.

But civilly speaking, there is usually a "reasonable force" aspect that won't land you in jail but could very well bankrupt you. I'm not familiar with TX law, though, but I'd be really surprised if you can use physical force with absolute impunity.

And claiming self-defence doesn't necessarily mean that you'd get off either (criminally speaking).
__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 08:43 PM   #731
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
It's self-defence everywhere.

But civilly speaking, there is usually a "reasonable force" aspect that won't land you in jail but could very well bankrupt you. I'm not familiar with TX law, though, but I'd be really surprised if you can use physical force with absolute impunity.

And claiming self-defence doesn't necessarily mean that you'd get off either (criminally speaking).
I guess I should have reworded that, Perry signed a law in 2007 that basically made the burden of proof on the person who was shot, so if they are dead, then you're almost scott free. It's still being fought right now, because it makes it far too easy to get away with murder.

Civilly I'm not sure how it works...
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 10:35 PM   #732
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Not in some states. I know in Texas it's considered self defense once they are in your home, car or work place. So you can literally invite the person over that you want to murder, shoot them and then claim self defense.

That's why I don't buy the "254 self defense killings" number.
I guess you'd have to look at how many of those killed were known by the killer. I think far more people get off with the "I was cleaning my gun and it just went off and killed my wife" defense.
__________________
HyperU2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 11:03 PM   #733
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
I think far more people get off with the "I was cleaning my gun and it just went off and killed my wife" defense.
I think we agree.
__________________
martha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 11:10 PM   #734
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
I guess you'd have to look at how many of those killed were known by the killer.
That doesn't really mean all that much when you look at the cases. There have been plenty of boyfriend/girlfriend/friends not living under the same roof type of relationships that have ended in gunshots. That's one of the major cases under scrutiny with this new law right now.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 11:15 PM   #735
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
That doesn't really mean all that much when you look at the cases. There have been plenty of boyfriend/girlfriend/friends not living under the same roof type of relationships that have ended in gunshots. That's one of the major cases under scrutiny with this new law right now.
Well the number of justified homicides really haven't gone up with the passing of the law. I wasn't solely referring to people who live together though, just any prior relationship.
__________________

__________________
HyperU2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com